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    1. Kit: pocher, by (Moderator) Egon is offline
      Builder Last Online: Dec 2019 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  Thanks: 0
      Started: 04-30-16 Build Revisions: Never  
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      Hi all I'm searching for drawing or anything that show how to convert the Pocher Mercedes 540 to the correct body, with small doors ecc.

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      Mercedes 540 special body-37-mercedes-benz-540k-dv-10-ai-013-jpg 


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  1. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    You probably already have this but.....

    Mercedes 540 special body-mercedes-type-540k-roadster-jpg
    QUOTE QUOTE #2

  2. sjordan's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Would the 1:16 Maharajah kit be a good reference to have at hand?


    A have a few additional shots of your 1:1 car here:
    http://s827.photobucket.com/user/sjo...tml?sort=3&o=1
    QUOTE QUOTE #3

  3. sjordan's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Somewhere, a few years ago, there was a thread on this forum about converting the rear body into a correct long-tail version. It might have gotten lost in the site upgrades.
    As for converting the doors, what if you glued the kit doors in place and puttied in the panel seams -- that would give you correct curvature. Then, make a template of the smaller door shape and cut it open again.
    QUOTE QUOTE #4

  4. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    Thanks guys, there is a CD of Mercedes Advanced techniques, by David Coc and Marvin Meit, a seller in UK say it contain some about moving engine and firewall back with a longe hood, but Marvin said a while ago he haven't got any info.
    Is the hood longer ? or just moved back, headlights are in front of radiator, not on the sides as Pocher have, as the drawing perfect shows.
    To start this change the frame must be changed to get engine back a bit, body and doors cut short, and then what more ?


    Mercedes 540 special body
    Last edited by Egon; 05-01-16 at 08:19 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #5

  5. petert's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hi Egon
    Try the model motorcars Mercedes 540 special body booklet on Mercedes Advanced Techniques, it may help
    QUOTE QUOTE #6

  6. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    egon
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    Thanks Peter I ask him again.
    I can't get a reply from MMC on this mail (mrmeit@modelmotorcars.com) why, anyone ?


    Mercedes 540 special body
    Last edited by Egon; 05-12-16 at 11:32 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #7

  7. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Hi Egon,
    Good to see you're back planning a build.
    I do have a book describing the M-B 500/540Ks up North. I'll be there next week so will take a look to see if it helps.
    In the meantime there is this info on Wikipedia:


    "The 540K had the same chassis layout at the 500K, but was significantly lightened by replacing the girder-like frame of the 500K with oval-section tubes - an influence of the Silver Arrows racing campaign.[SUP][3][/SUP]

    To meet individual wishes of customers, three chassis variants were available as for the 500K: two long versions with a 3,290 mm (130 in) wheelbase, differing in terms of powertrain and bodywork layout; and a short version with 2,980 mm (117 in). The long variant, termed the normal chassis with the radiator directly above the front axle, served as the backbone for the four-seater cabriolets 'B' (with four side windows) and 'C' (with two side windows), and for touring cars and sedans. The shorter chassis was for the two-seater cabriolet 'A,' set up on a chassis on which radiator, engine, cockpit and all rearward moduleswere moved 185 mm (7.3 in) back from the front axle.[SUP]"
    And:
    "In 1936, Mercedes-Benz launched the 540K special, designated 540Ks. Based on the shorter 2,980 mm (117 in) wheelbase chassis, ...."

    I'd have to assume that everything from the front seats forward were moved back.

    [/SUP]
    QUOTE QUOTE #8

  8. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    Thanks John, not building but collecting info to the day I start again, to much going on right now, lawsuits to win.
    To me it look like it only been cut at the door and front moved back, that's why headlight are in front of radiator and engine have to move back in the chassis, but if hood is longer, I don't know.


    Mercedes 540 special body
    QUOTE QUOTE #9

  9. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaleMotorcars View Post
    You probably already have this but.....

    Mercedes 540 special body-mercedes-type-540k-roadster-jpg
    Do you have the normal 500 in the same drawing scale to lay over and see the difference.


    Mercedes 540 special body
    QUOTE QUOTE #10

  10. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Egon, sometimes the more you dig the muddier things become.
    Following is a picture showing three profiles for the 540K.
    Mercedes 540 special body-comparisonscomp-jpg
    The first two are from a two volume history of the M-B '8' which covers the supercharged models of the 1930s. Unfortunately, the two volumes are full of photographs, but short on schematics and technical specs. The top outline is, apparently, taken from a 1939 M-B sales catalogue, so should be pretty accurate. It appears to show the standard 540K on the normal (3290 mm) chassis and without any setback of the radiator and engine.
    The second is a sketch/schematic showing a 1937 540K with the setback radiator & engine. It appears to be a Special Roadster on the normal (3290 mm) chassis. It's pretty clear that the firewall, windshield and seats also moved back.
    The last picture is the profile from the schematics posted by Daniel(?) earlier in this thread.
    The wheel sizes are very similar in the three profiles, so I'm pretty sure they are all to roughly the same scale. That being the case, they all appear to be on the standard chassis. The short wheelbase was 2980 mm, so I think it would be obvious if the shorter chassis was being used.
    The setbacks are slightly different in the two lower profiles which is a bit of a concern. Wikipedia says the setback was 185 mm, which would be much closer to the lower schematic. However Wikipedia isn't entirely correct about other details of the 540K so I would want to double-check that dimension.
    Jan Melin, the author of the two volume history, doesn't specify a setback, but he did do a huge amount of research so I'm inclined to believe him on other things. He states that the 380K (the predecessor to the 500K), the 500K and the 540K all had short wheelbase versions. Of the 380K, he says "There were no less than five different frames listed in the spare parts list, including one intended for 'sports cars'. It is unclear if this in fact the frame used only for models delivered with the much sought after 'set-back' positioning of the radiator and engine, or if it also was used for a shorter wheelbase." Of the 500K he says "the second edition (of the spare parts catalog) listed no fewer than seven different chassis frames, including those intended for left- or right-hand drive cars and for example chassis with the set-back positioning of the radiator and engine." In other words it's not obvious that the set-back arrangement was only used on the short wheelbase cars which is what Wikipedia states.
    Wikipedia also states that the 540K chassis used oval section tubes, but Jan Melin says the "chassis frame was of the by now well proven design of the mostly boxed-in U-section side rails joined together by five sturdy cross members."
    If you can find a cross-section profile (or for that matter, a good side profile photo) of a short wheelbase 540K, things might get much clearer.
    Now, even I'm intrigued.
    QUOTE QUOTE #11

  11. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Egon, this is from myAutoWorld and makes sense to me. Even though the comments refer to the 500K, the 540K and 500K were, of course very similar.

    "To meet the individual wishes of the demanding customers, three chassis variants were available for the 500 K: two long versions with a 3,290 millimeter wheelbase, differing in terms of powertrain and bodywork layout, and a short version with 2,980 millimeters.


    The long variant, the so-called normal chassis with the radiator directly above the front axle, served as the backbone for the four-seater cabriolets "B" (with four side windows) and "C" (with two side windows) and, at a later stage, also for touring cars and sedans.
    The roadsters, the two-seater cabriolet "A" (with two side windows) and the ultra-modern, streamlined Motorway Courier, the first car with curved side windows and classified by the manufacturer as a sports sedan, were set up on a chassis on which radiator, engine, cockpit and all rearward modules were moved 185 millimeters back from the front axle. This configuration was a concession to the zeitgeist, a small trick that created the visual impression of a particularly long front-end and, therefore, the desired sporting appeal.
    The most ravishing model of this species was the two-seater 500 K special roadster launched in 1936, a masterpiece in terms of its styling, with inimitably powerful and elegant lines. It has been filling onlookers with enthusiasm to this day, reflecting, as it does, the spirit of its day and age as well as the design perfection of the 500 K models. Its price tag – 28,000 Reichsmark – was 6,000 marks above the average price of "simpler" models. People were able to buy a generously furnished house for that money.

    The short-wheelbase chassis was used only for a few two-seaters with special bodies. On these models, the radiator was back right above the front axle, and the models carried the designations 500 K sports roadster, sports cabriolet and sports coupe."

    In other words, the setback design was only on the standard chassis. When the shorter wheelbase chassis was used, the radiator (and engine) were not setback. That's consistent with this photo which is of a 1939 540K sold at auction by RM Auctions in 2013. It's on the shortened wheelbase.
    Mercedes 540 special body-39-mercedes_540k_swb-jpg
    Mechanically, it makes sense. A short chassis (-310 mm) and a setback (-185 mm) would be really, really cramped.

    So I think you can use the middle profile in the picture in my earlier post to figure out where the seat, firewall and windshield should go.
    QUOTE QUOTE #12

  12. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    egon
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    Thanks John, what a huge explanation you made there, I think it's more than the Mercedes museum in germany know about the car.
    The pictures also show the 540 special has a longer rear, if that middle pic. show the Pocher model of the K500.
    Some day soon I must start building again, John


    Mercedes 540 special body
    QUOTE QUOTE #13

  13. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Glad to help
    QUOTE QUOTE #14

  14. sjordan's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I would think the Melin book would have these specs. If not, this is from the Hofner & Schrader book.



    QUOTE QUOTE #15

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