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    1. Kit: Pocher, by (Active Member) jrhaddock is offline
      Builder Last Online: Dec 2018 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  (1 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 5
      Started: 01-21-16 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Kit Bashed Includes Transkit Attribution
      Build in Progress

      [B]GURNEY NUTTING RR PHANTOM II FAUX CABRIOLET[/B]
      [B]CLOSET MODELING[/B]

      [B]BUILD THREAD[/B]
      Even though it’s not something I’ve done before, I’ve been thinking of starting a build thread for my next model.
      The model will be of a 1933 Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II and will be based on the Pocher RR Sedanca kit. However, I have a large number of changes and scratch-built elements planned so this particular build experience may prove useful to others.
      In addition I now winter in Florida and so my modeling space there is restricted to a roughly 5’ x 5’ walk-in closet. There’s a limited array of tools there and no easy way to paint anything, so construction will be a bit of a challenge. But then I’m not alone in having limited modeling space and believe you don’t need a full blown workshop to do some serious modeling. So why not give it a try?

      [B]GURNEY NUTTING[/B]
      Gurney Nutting was one of the pre-eminent pre-WW II coachbuilders using the Rolls-Royce chassis. Their sleek designs on the shortened Continental chassis were particularly attractive and were the basis for the Pocher Rolls-Royce Sedanca model.

      [B]1933 FAUX-CABRIOLET[/B]
      In my opinion, one of their most attractive creations was this faux-cabriolet built in 1933 for Sir Hugo Cunliffe-Owen, chairman of the British-American Tobacco Company:
      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-1933-rrphantomii-gn-fauxcab-1-jpg
      It’s a particularly sleek and handsome design which conveys both flair and respectability, something that’s not easy to achieve. It was built on the shorter Continental Phantom II chassis and, despite the appearance, the roof does not fold back, (hence faux-cabriolet) but, instead, has a sunroof.

      [B]PLATFORM[/B]
      The Pocher RR kits all use the 144” wheelbase Continental chassis so the Sedanca kit would make a good starting point. A few years ago, I had purchased two partially completed (and abandoned) model Sedanacas so they can be the platform for this model.
      I like my models to be replicas; that is historically accurate versions of the original vehicle. That means adding lots of detail and correcting the inaccuracies in the Pocher kits. So this will not be an ordinary Pocher build, quite the opposite.

      [B]CHALLENGES & SOLUTIONS[/B]
      Below is the picture on the Pocher RR Sedanca box and, as you can see, the most glaring external differences are the fenders, trunk (or boot) and the spare wheels.
      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-pocher-jpg
      Fortunately, Model Motor Cars sells a set of resin Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet fenders for the Amabassador kit. Those fenders are very similar to those on the Gurney Nutting faux cabriolet and I just happen to have a set. So, with some modification, they should be suitable.
      I’ve also been experimenting with 3D printing of parts so I’m confident 3D printing can take care of the spare wheel covers.
      The roof profile is slightly different and the belt line higher, but I figure I can modify the Pocher body to match. And those of you with eagle eyes will note that there are five louvers on the Pocher body, but seven on the Gurney Nutting body. However, with two kit bodies at hand and some cutting and splicing I should be able to get that fixed.

      [B]DIFFERENCES vs. THE POCHER KIT[/B]
      Pocher mixed up different generations of Phantom IIs in their kits. So, one of the steps will be to make sure the build will include the correct features for the date on which the prototype was built. The chassis number is 170MY and it came ‘off-test’ (i.e. the chassis was complete) on May 5[SUP]th[/SUP], 1933.

      The Pocher engine will require significant modifications as well as the addition of many super-details (such as control linkages) missing from the kit. However many of the individual changes are in a series of build notes that are available on my website at www.jrhscalecars.com under the Phantom II tab. So, at least, I’m very familiar with what has to be done.
      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-1933-rrphantomii-gn-fauxcab-2-jpg
      One of the most noticeable changes is the third generation semi-expanding carburetor with its big air cleaner. Fortunately I had built one for my Figoni & Falaschi RR model. I can build another and I now have the option of using 3D printing.
      In the photo you may also have noticed the two vertical cylinders on the left hand side of the firewall next to the steering column. Those are remote hydraulic adjusters for the Andre Hartford friction shock absorbers. The adjustment was by means of a knob on the dashboard. The Hartfords were installed in addition to the regular shock absorbers and were designed to reduce sway when driving at high speed. Indeed, in the original RR factory build notes for this car it states that it will be used “in the UK. Mainly fast touring”. The Figoni & Falaschi RR was also fitted with Hartford shocks (although not with remote adjustment) and I had installed those on the model. They really shouldn’t be too much of a challenge. Of course, it’s not entirely clear how the hydraulic cylinders are mounted, but I’ll figure something out as I go along.
      It’s not obvious, but the engine has a torque reaction damper mounted between the front of the engine and the radiator. This was left out of the Pocher kit, primarily because the Pocher radiator is too thick. So the radiator will get slimmed down and the damper assembly and its related cross-member added.
      Also, the front shock absorber design used in the Pocher kit was not introduced by RR until July 1933, so this model should have the earlier, vertical-type front shock absorbers that were mounted on the inside of the chassis rails. 3D printing will help with them too.
      This generation of the Phantom II came equipped with the smaller 20 gal (Imp) fuel tank, not the 28 gal tank provided in the Pocher kits. However I had scratch built Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet the smaller tank for my Figoni & Falaschi RR model so I could do so again, although I’ll probably try a 3D printed version first.

      Bottom line is that there are a whole bunch of corrections to make and details to add, but no obvious ‘stoppers’. It will be just a matter of time, patience and application.

      Still, let me know what you think.


      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
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  1. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    John
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    With the body lowered, my attention turned to fixing the bonnet. This model is a rework of a half-completed model and the bonnet had been poorly done. Worse, the top panels of the bonnet were distorted and didn't fit well to the radiator. The outside of the front edges were too high:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0061-jpg
    The best advice I received for fixing this was to make a balsa wood former with the right profile and strap the bonnet piece to the balsa wood former (I use scotch tape as strapping). Then, immerse the balsa wood former and the plastic piece into boiling water and leave for a couple of minutes, Remove the former and, with the piece still strapped to it, dunk it in cold water to ‘set’ the styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet . Once the straps are removed, the bonnet piece should hold its new shape.

    Styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet softens between approximately 200⁰F and 215⁰F (93⁰C - 102⁰C) so boiling water works fine. I’ve tried using a heat gun in the past but it’s tough to evenly heat the styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet and, more often than not, I got uneven edges and buckling.

    Here’s a picture of the former and a picture of the bonnet piece. The former is shaped for both the left and right halves of the bonnet top.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0078-jpg
    Here's the panel after the Scotch tape straps had been removed ...
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0075-jpg
    ... and here's the modified bonnet panel in place:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0070crpd-jpg
    The process was then repeated for the left hand panel.

    Now the side profile of the model was beginning to look right:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-bodycomparison-4-12-16-jpg


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #17

  2. Solyrus's Avatar Active Member
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    Rajen
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    Hi John,
    Thanks for the build diary, and the great tips on forming styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet . As well as modifying the Pocher kit. I would love to attempt such a build one day, when my skills are better developed. My choice of model would be the following -Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-25035-jpg.

    Do you know anything about this model? I have a few pics of it but dont have much info about the car itself.
    QUOTE QUOTE #18

  3. Solyrus's Avatar Active Member
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    Rajen
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-h1-01-1932-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-continental-2-imp-660x444-jpegThen there is also this model but certainly even further beyond my skills set.

    Btw, I have seen you RR engine builds and schematics and absolutely love them.

    Regards
    Rajen
    QUOTE QUOTE #19

  4. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    John
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    Rajen,

    The first picture looks like a Gurney Nutting 3-position cabriolet version of the PII and no doubt built on the short wheelbase Continental chassis. The fender profile is certainly very consistent with their designs. If you have a chassis number, or even a registration number, I might be able to find out more.
    The nearest I could come up with was this 1:43 scale model by Neo Models.
    http://www.modelcarworld.de/uk/news/...ale-Models.htm
    Apparently it's a model of chassis 64PY built in 1935.

    The second picture is of 2MS, a 1932 Ph II Continental re-bodied in 1937 by Figoni & Falaschi. It was the subject of a largely scratch-built model I completed two years ago. You can get a lot of info on the model here:
    http://www.jrhscalecars.com/RRFFSpecs.html
    That one was a big challenge!!


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #20

  5. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    I remember that thread. I remember wishing there were more build photos. It did show some detail on how you constructed the body.

    What ever happened to the body mold you did? Were you able to produce any bodies? Got any left you wouldn't mind donating to SMC? (Im totally broke but full of wishful thinking)...

    Rajen the thread is here.. http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/...hantom-ii.html
    Last edited by ScaleMotorcars; 05-03-16 at 05:42 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #21

  6. Solyrus's Avatar Active Member
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    Rajen
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    John, thanks for the info on the two models.

    Daniel, thanks for the thread link.

    I can certainly see how the build would have complex and difficult - I get shivers just looking at the front fenders. Beautiful to look at, challenging to build.
    QUOTE QUOTE #22

  7. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    John
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    Daniel,

    The body was fiberglass, formed on the inside of a silicon mold. The fenders were resin Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet cast. I don't have any spare bodies or castings, but I think I still have the molds (they would be up North).
    However, I did write up two long notes on how the fenders and body were made. More specifically, the notes outline, step-by-step, how the molds and then the fenders and body were made. You can find the notes here:
    http://www.jrhscalecars.com/ToolsRes...iberglass.html
    I'll be happy to provide the PDFs here (or Word versions if folks prefer) but I'm not sure how to do that. The PDF flies are 9MB and 6MB respectively.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #23

  8. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    Just skimmed the two articles and Im very impressed. I produced 32 ford coupe bodies for years and I know what a chore it can be to cast even one body. I've done both resin Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet cast and fiberglass layup and I have to say your finished body looks completely professional.

    Ok, maybe we should get back to the Cabriolet. Whats next for your build.
    QUOTE QUOTE #24

  9. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    This was the status a month ago:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0224cmp-jpg
    The next big item was to deepen the door, down almost to the running board as in these pictures.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0238cmp-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0240cmp-jpg
    Obviously, the floor skirt has to be made deeper and I was hoping I could use the Pocher floor and keep things relatively simple. But complicating everything is the fact that Gurney Nutting cars typically had a step in the floor behind the front seats and a footwell for the rear seat passengers feet. The prototype for the model was no different. You can just see the edge of the footwell in this photo:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-lf07_r136_6-jpg and this gives a better idea: Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-gn-rearfootwell3-jpg
    At the same time the rear seats are quite different than the Pocher model so the rear seat support and floor would have to be modified to accommodate the Gurney Nutting seats. Here's a picture of the heavily butchered Pocher floor:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-floorconstraints-jpg
    The right hand arrow shows the gear lever boss on the chassis rail. The front of the chassis has to clear this. The left hand arrow shows the top of one of the chassis cross members which the rear floor has to clear. This allows for a 4mm (1:8 scale) step down in the floor. Of course, the footwell will have to be in front of the cross member. The paper profile confirms that the changes will accommodate the new rear seats.

    With so many changes needed and the prospect of more butchering of the Pocher floor, I decided it really would be simpler to make a new floor using Plastruct's .100" (2.5mm) styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet sheet. This is the same thickness as the Pocher floor, but I could just as easily have used 0.080" (2mm) sheet. Here's the new floor:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0253cmp-jpg

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0260cmp-jpg
    The footwell, which includes a hump for the transmission tunnel, will be 3D printed and will fit in to the cutout in the floor.

    The next steps are to add the supports for the rear seats and add the skirts for the floor. They will be subjects for other comments.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    Attached Images Attached Images Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-rr-reference-179-jpg  Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0243cmp-jpg  Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0246cmp-jpg  Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0264cmp-jpg 
    QUOTE QUOTE #25

  10. Solyrus's Avatar Active Member
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    Rajen
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    John,
    Just read the two articles - fascinating and compelling. And the result is really excellent.

    I sincerely hope you still have those molds. I suspect many builders would be keen to get their hands on the fenders and even the body. Have you ever considered that - doing a production run and selling them. A distraction from your cabriolet build but perhaps a way to fund future 3D printing..?
    QUOTE QUOTE #26

  11. sjordan's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solyrus View Post
    Hi John,
    Thanks for the build diary, and the great tips on forming styrene. As well as modifying the Pocher kit. I would love to attempt such a build one day, when my skills are better developed. My choice of model would be the following -Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-25035-jpg.

    Do you know anything about this model? I have a few pics of it but dont have much info about the car itself.
    You'll find most of what you need to know at the link below, with tons of detailed photos. It's a 1934 Ranalah Sedanca Drophead, reg. GLB15.

    http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/...line%206%20Cyl

    PS: Whenever you see a car in front of that red brick wall, chances are it's from fantasyjunction.com
    Last edited by sjordan; 05-05-16 at 11:31 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #27

  12. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Fascinating.
    I'd never come across Ranalah in all my Phantom II sleuthing.
    According to this link they only bodied two Phantom IIs, one of which is shown here:
    https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car...ii/1931/316309
    I have to question how original their designs were, but they certainly had a good eye for an attractive shape.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #28

  13. Solyrus's Avatar Active Member
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    Rajen
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    Thanks Skip,.

    I suspect thats where I got the pics in the first place without realising it.

    It is a great car!
    QUOTE QUOTE #29

  14. sjordan's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhaddock View Post
    Fascinating.
    I'd never come across Ranalah in all my Phantom II sleuthing.
    According to this link they only bodied two Phantom IIs, one of which is shown here:
    https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car...ii/1931/316309
    I have to question how original their designs were, but they certainly had a good eye for an attractive shape.
    Most sedanca coachbuilders stuck to the Owen design, as did Gurney-Nutting, so there's a lot of similarity. I, too, could not find this car in any of my Phantom II reference and it occurred to me...it's not part of the Phantom II series. It's just a 20/25.
    QUOTE QUOTE #30

  15. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    My last post showed pictures of the new scratch-built floor. The new floor will accommodate the deeper Gurney-Nutting doors and also provide an appropriate platform for the rear seats.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0261cmp-jpg

    The seat backs, seat cushions and the interior trim on either side of the seats had been 3D printed, so it was necessary to make sure the rear of the seats would fit and be appropriately positioned with respect to the body. The first step was to set up the seat backs. To do that, I used four 3/32” brass pegs to hold the seat backs in place. They would let me adjust the seat back height, if that was necessary.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0272-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0271cmp-jpg
    The gap between the seat backs is for the armrest.

    The next step was to build the base for the seat cushions. It was constructed from .100” styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet sheet:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0270-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0269-jpg
    At this point, the base is held in place by just two .025” piano wire pegs in the floor. I’m a big fan of using pegs prior to final assembly, especially when multiple pieces have to fit together. It makes adjustments much easier and all of the test fitting can be done prior to painting.

    Now the side trim can be added:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0275cmp-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0276cmp-jpg
    The side trim pieces were 3D printed before I knew the exact construction of the rear of the floor so, as you can see, the back lower corners of the side pieces had to be cut away to fit the floor. All of that will be invisible once the model is completed. I made sure I did not cut away too much, at least until I knew how the seats would mesh with the body.
    At this point each side piece is attached to the adjacent seat back by just one 0-80 Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet screw, but the seat backs are still pegged to the floor. A 3/32” rod through the armrest and into each side wall of the seat backs hold the armrest in place and lets it pivot up and down.

    There’s some trimming still to do to the rear sides of the floor next to the side pieces … they are about 2mm too wide.

    To the left (and I’m assuming, to the right) of the rear seats were storage compartments for wine glasses and bottles. The compartment for the wine glasses is clearly visible in the photo. It is, of course, missing its door. Immediately below it is the storage compartment for bottles. It has a curved hinged cover and the right hand photo shows the compartment with the cover removed.

    The final step was to check the fit of the rear seat assembly with the body:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0279cmp-jpg
    So far so good.

    The front seats (frame, base and seat backs) are also 3D printed although, at this point, I’m still waiting for revised seat backs to be delivered. Nevertheless the frames and seat backs let me confirm the fit once more.

    Incidentally, the white styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet piece on the rear wall of the body is a fill piece helping convert the rectangular window of the Pocher model to the two oval windows of the Gurney Nutting prototype. Eventually, I’ll use two oval inserts to trim the oval holes as well as hold the faux cabriolet roof in place and provide location points for the interior trim around the rear windows.

    And here’s a wide angle photo from the prototype showing what I’m trying to achieve:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-rearseatsprototype-jpg

    Now my attention can turn to adding the side skirts to the floor and bridging the gap between the floor skirt and the body.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #31

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