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    1. Kit: , by (VIP/Sponsor) sydeem is offline
      Builder Last Online: Aug 2014 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  (1 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 0
      Started: 03-18-08 Build Revisions: Never  
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      I didn't get in enough trouble with the Citroen so now the Camel. I know this kit is no where near the Hasegawa but at $170 it fits the budget. I have more time than money and all the details provided from mouppe's build will act as instruction to make this a more detailed build than Model Airways provides. (I hope!) Plus I will cheat and include things we learn from Mario's Jenny.

      Kit won't arrive till next week. Hope the Citroen will be finished soon so I can start on this.
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  1. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    Theres the motor and Wright Flyer also.
    #17

  2. Daniel's Avatar Established Member
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    Daniel
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    The other airplanes in the series are the 1/8 scale Royal Aircraft Factory S.E.5 and the 1/16 scale Wright Flyer. There is also a 1/8 scale Clerget motor kit which is the same plastic motor supplied with the Sopwith Camel kit. There is also a metal version of the motor kit.
    #18

  3. mouppe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    ...and a 1/8 plastic Le Rhone engine kit.
    #19

  4. Daniel's Avatar Established Member
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    Syd, send me a PM with your email address and I will email the Hasegawa Camel plans direct to you.
    #20

  5. mouppe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Daniel,

    As an adjunct to the 1/8 plans, perhaps you could keep the wooden sheets as you progress with your Camel and Fokker builds. I threw mine away after I had popped the pieces out, but in hindsight they would make great templates for scratchbuilders. With the exception of a few plastic pieces- bear in mind that the engine and guns can be purchased separately- there is not a lot on these planes that cannot be scratchbuilt.

    Mouppe.
    #21

  6. sydeem's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Sydney
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    Killing time waiting for the kit to show up I worried about turnbuckle size. They look large on real aircraft. It looks like Model Airways may have clunky hardware but more in scale size as far as turnbuckles go. First image is from an MA built kit. Second image is Hasegawa. Third and fourth images are museum reconstructions. Hasegawa looks delicate and beautiful but not to scale. Opinions????
    Attached Images Attached Images Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-camel2-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-cockpit-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-p4200308-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-p7221048-jpg 
    Syd
    #22

  7. Mario Lucchini's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydeem View Post
    Killing time waiting for the kit to show up I worried about turnbuckle size. They look large on real aircraft. It looks like Model Airways may have clunky hardware but more in scale size as far as turnbuckles go. First image is from an MA built kit. Second image is Hasegawa. Third and fourth images are museum reconstructions. Hasegawa looks delicate and beautiful but not to scale. Opinions????
    Mr Syd:
    It is with great pleasure that I attach an excerpt of my copyrighted plans of the Jenny, showing the scale size of the turnbuckles, plus some drawings of the safety wiring used to avoid the turnbuckles coming loose....
    Sincerely yours

    The Maniac Pilot
    Attached Images Attached Images Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-2007-09-20_200353_wiringturnbuckles-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-2007-09-20_200757_wiringturnbuckles2-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-maniac-pilot-jpg 
    Attached Images Attached Images
    #23

  8. sydeem's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Mario - every post you make blows away the last one. What an outstanding pdf drawing (folks don't just glance at the images - open the pdf) I plan to make turn buckles but no way am I going to be able to make them like you have drawn them.

    I knew you would produce information that could be applied to the Camel. Can't tell the size as the dimension noted is too small to be readable but from guessing - the turnbuckles look to be 1/4 inch????
    Last edited by sydeem; 03-29-08 at 11:12 AM.
    Syd
    #24

  9. hot ford coupe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Jeffrey
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    This vintage aircraft section is turning out way better than I ever could expect. The quality of work here is astounding. These are hard to build and very delicate pieces and each one will turn out a master piece. BTW, Syd is right. Open the pdf. It's well worth the look.
    Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truck load of brains. Have the courage to trust your own beliefs. Don't be swayed by those with louder voices. W.S. Maugham :)
    #25

  10. Mario Lucchini's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydeem View Post
    Mario - every post you make blows away the last one. What an outstanding pdf drawing (folks don't just glance at the images - open the pdf) I plan to make turn buckles but no way am I going to be able to make them like you have drawn them.

    I knew you would produce information that could be applied to the Camel. Can't tell the size as the dimension noted is too small to be readable but from guessing - the turnbuckles look to be 1/4 inch????
    Syd:
    You can zoom the plan in PDF as much as you wish....anyway, the dimension of the turnbuckle center to center of the eyelets is 7.2 mm (1/16 scale)

    Mario
    #26

  11. Daniel's Avatar Established Member
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    Syd, Here is a scan of the actual Hasegawa Camel turnbuckles, they are 14.7mm overall length end to end and 14.4mm centre to centre. Mario’s dimensions are spot on. These turnbuckles are only supplied for use around the wing area however. Along the fuselage short lengths of 1.2mm and 0.8mm copper tubes are used instead, which I’m not too impressed about. Along the fuselage the instructions for the rigging method state “Turn thread at start and end points and run turned ends through 1.2Ř copper pipe and then fix with instant glue. Fix also intermediate 0.8Ř copper pipes.” They don’t even give you the lengths to cut the tube! To me it looks like Hasegawa took a short cut here. Looking at the Fokker kit, no turnbuckles at all are supplied; they again take a short cut. To me these omissions are unforgivable in a kit that claims to be museum quality. Hasegawa could easily have included a few extra sprues of turnbuckles. I will have to cast some metal copies when I get around to building these kits.
    Attached Images Attached Images Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-30-03-2008-1-27-42-pm_0011-jpg 
    #27

  12. Daniel's Avatar Established Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouppe View Post
    Daniel,

    As an adjunct to the 1/8 plans, perhaps you could keep the wooden sheets as you progress with your Camel and Fokker builds. I threw mine away after I had popped the pieces out, but in hindsight they would make great templates for scratchbuilders. With the exception of a few plastic pieces- bear in mind that the engine and guns can be purchased separately- there is not a lot on these planes that cannot be scratchbuilt.

    Mouppe.
    Mouppe, When I was a kid building RC planes I used to stick the plan prints direct to wooden sheets and use a scroll saw to cut out the pieces. Scanning the actual wooden sheets supplied with the kit would be difficult as most are bigger than my A4 flat bed scanner. Another problem with scanning 3d objects is shadows which distorts the actual size of the object. Using print plans I have found is always the easiest way to cut out parts when scratch building.
    #28

  13. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    Haven't forgotten about the plans. I should have the new manuals page finished by Monday afternoon. Ill have all the manuals on one page. Cars, boats, bikes and planes.
    #29

  14. sydeem's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Sydney
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    Interesting differences between Hasegawa and Model Airways. I was repeating comments like "clunky hardware" from reading the internet but I think those comments might have come from Hasegawa owners justifying their purchase price.

    First image is an MA kit - Second image is Has kit. MA has the turnbuckles that are missing in Has; MA is missing the ****pit stringer detail available in Has, missing the joint/turnbuckle photoetched fixtures available in Has but did provide detail on the wooden brace by the motor mount not available in Has. Seeing as the Has kit is twice the size of MA, the wooden frame pieces can be more in scale thickness without being too fragile. Interesting in the pictures it looks like the motor brace rides at a different height in either model.

    I thought I was going to have to make turnbuckles from what I had read but now I am waiting for the kit as I think it may be better detailed than the internet write-ups had lead me to believe.
    Attached Images Attached Images Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-camel2-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-cockpit-jpg 
    Last edited by sydeem; 03-30-08 at 04:25 PM.
    Syd
    #30

  15. mouppe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Sy,

    The Hasegawa kit does have turnbuckles in certain areas of the kit, notably the wing and ****pit struts, where wire is used instead of thread for the rigging.

    The turnbuckles on the fuselage and wing rigging are replaced on the Hasegawa kit by simple copper tubing- this is a bit of a shortcut- but I have to admit that I am grateful not to have rig hundreds of turnbuckles.

    One big difference between the kits is that the forward part of the fuselage in the Hasegawa is covered by aluminium pieces and an aluminium cowling, so you would not see the wooden brace detail.

    Is the Hasegawa worth three times the MA kit? I will have to build one and see! I would certainly scratchbuild the ****pit struts from wood, rather than use the metal ones in the kit.

    Mouppe.

    P.S. That Hasegawa Camel photo looks familiar! Seems like ages ago I was at that stage.
    P.P.S. Can we change the spell checker to allow the word c o c k p i t? Too funny!
    Attached Images Attached Images Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-004-jpg  Model Airways 1/16 Sopwith Camel-009-jpg 
    #31

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