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  1. Rick's Avatar Member
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    Rick
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    I'm feeling philosophical today. I'm probably no different from most of you, in that I watch several sites along with Ebay. Don't know about you, but I'm always looking for clues as to where our hobby is going.

    I'm continually amazed by the huge variety of bodies and aftermarket parts in small scale. Its become an industry and its growing by leaps and bounds with great new stuff comming out almost monthly. Some manufactures are are doing the car show/swap meet/hobby show/Ebay circuit and actually making a living at it. Some model car shows are attracting over a thousand entries.

    I'm here because like you guys, I'm into large scale which in my case is 8th. Some of our members are producing great stuff for us, but there dosen't seem to be the excitement and growth that there is in small scale. It seems like we can't get past the deuce and the T because there are so few other bodies being produced and without new bodies comming out, the parts list remains limited. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what Dan and some of our members are doing in the aftermarket arena, but I'm craving for more.

    I know my buddy Don will probably tell me to "get over it" and I will. But because this is "The" large scale site, I'd be interested to hear what you guys think. Where do we go from here?
    QUOTE QUOTE #1

  2. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    Its a simple matter of economics. The smaller scales are simply cheaper to produce.

    For the average resin State Of The Hobby caster a body mold for a 1/25th scale car should run about $30 maybe $40 to make. A 1/8th mold can round out at $300 plus.

    On a grander scale the "Big" companies would be spending anywhere from $10,000 to $40,000 for the same body not to include all the smaller pieces. A new kit could runs hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce and the demand simply isn't large enough.

    SO!!!! I wouldn't hold your breath for anything new on your Hobby Lobby shelf and like in Jeff's post the other day anything new isn't going to be cheap. Basic kit for the Aussie 351 was something like $800.

    On a brighter note I'm doing more behind the scenes then even Don knows. Once in production Ill be hitting up all the model shows with a huge display and Ill be at every Rod and Classic car show I can find. Things will be brighter on the 1/8th scale front soon. Just hold on its allot to do for just one guy but I'm up to it.
    QUOTE QUOTE #2

  3. Don Garrett's Avatar Asst. Administrator
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    Sounds good to me.
    Grandpa McGurk.....Steppin' Large and Livin' easy.
    TDRinnovations.com
    QUOTE QUOTE #3

  4. hot ford coupe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I love to get philosophical because this is where concepts are developed rather than just technique.

    The state and future of the hobby should obviously rest in the hands of the active builders, i.e. us and not the manufacturers if it's ever going to go in the direction we want it to. That means that each one of us needs to know where we've been, where we ourselves are going, why we build in the first place and how it relates to the future of the hobby. Each one of us has a responsibility to get out there and help guide the hobby's future. We then find others with similar philosophies, get together to share ideas and help get what we do out where it can be seen by a larger number of people who may never had thought they had an interest in what we do. We then continue to add to our numbers new builders who like the philosophies we espouse. The cycle continues and the hobby grows. Now how does this relate to each of us in the long scheme of things?

    I'll use my experience as an example. This way, you can see what I'm talking about. It's a long long read but if you stick with me, I promise you'll see the point.

    Now, how does Jeff Himan's past experience work towards affecting the future of large scale model building? Why does Jeff Himan build large scale model cars in the first place? I started out building small scale cars as a kid just like many of the men around the world. It was something to pass the time and a great way to make a cool toy. After a short while and after reading some of the old magazines, I decided I wanted to do some of the cool things that other kids my age were doing. At that point, it became a way for me to express myself and my ideas in a unique form of sculpture. It was no longer only just to pass time and keep me off the street. Then like a breath of fresh air, along comes several kits in a scale that no one made too frequently. I fell in love with those large cars because I could really see the detail and use my imagination to take great hot State Of The Hobby rod rides to wherever I wanted. But like what usually happens in life, time goes on, school becomes more important than hobbies, new things come along, girls, jobs and some things get put aside.

    As with many folks my age, I became nostalgic for a lot of the cars, fashions and culture of my younger years in the 1950's. That introduced me to collecting die cast replicas of the cars I remembered as a kid and the bigger they were, the better. At that time, they were affordable. Plus I had a job where now I could afford them. I reminisced and all was well. I found myself a solid "happy place" just looking at those cars for hours. After a while, some of the cars I wanted to see were not available and it didn't look much like anyone would be making them very soon. The solution, why not go back into making model cars not available in die cast, in colors not available and with modifications not available. That was only since 2003. I found Scale Auto magazine and started to read them like I did way back when and POW, the detail bug bit me back and hard after 40 years of letting it sit aside. The difference now was that there was a website where you could really immerse yourself in what could be done, SA. ---- And Man!, I wanted to do work like that. Being a dentist, I was already a detail man and this was right up my alley. The problem was that I had no idea how it was done. I had good problem solving skills but you can't solve what you don't know. I learned a technique, practiced it and mastered it. I did the same over and over again. I never really completed a particular model, but I had a great deal of experience and a great bunch of assemblies lying around. I continued to do that like I was in a post graduate program for auto modeling and just continued to soak up knowledge wherever I could. Then I came across a few of the master scratchbuilders and Whammo, I really needed to be able to do that too. That was really cool and very unique compared to the average builder. The hobby went in a new direction for me. Combine that with the release of the Big Deuce reissue, my all time favorite model, and I no longer wanted just to collect replicas of my childhood. Now it was the challenge of a lifetime, my Everest, my windmills, my quest. Then the best thing that could have ever happened, did. I began to see that on SA, there were a bunch of other builders with a lot of experience with a similar experience, interest and philosophy that I had. We formed the largest thread on SA, over 100 pages, dedicated to one model, the 1/8 scale deuce. Out of that thread, a website emerged for other large scale modelers. The big problem was that there was a limited amount of things we could do with that one model. Next, something incredible happened. We were joined by some of those master scratchbuilders whose work I used to literally drool over like a drunk St. Bernard. And they were all more than willing to share that knowledge. It was like a modeling PhD program. Then there was this great flood of encouragement from a bunch of these guys for me to try new stuff I thought I could never in a million years do. And now I could do it. I was now on that quest I started and everytime I past a milestone, I hungered for more. The hobby evolved once more giving me an incredible rush whenever I could accurately make any part or assembly I wanted that when photographed was hard to tell from real and looked like it was made of a material different than what I used. All the while I was still learning and aggressively experimenting with all the techniques I learned and started to develop myself. I realized I had reached a goal I had set long ago and that was to be able to make anything I wanted, or in other words I was independent of the kit, that chain that bound me down, squashed my creativity and wouldn't let me have what I wanted. Finally, other members of that site expressed a strong desire for that same feeling and experience. Others had felt like I did before I realized what I could actually do. Here's where it all makes my point. In summary (thank God ), I began sharing my knowledge which was directly guided by my total past modeling experience. I was now helping to expand the hobby by sharing my feelings and philosophy I so closely scrutinized in the hope that others would feel the same way I did and joined me in my quest. Now my quest became their quest. Hopefully you can see how using your own experiences influences others and brings them into the large scale hobby. Not everyone has the same philosophy of building that I do but that doesn't matter. Modelers willinvariably influence other modelers to follow in their footsteps and keep those particular philosophies strong and alive. Combine all of those philosophies and lo and behold., the hobby stays alive and develops a broad future which is what we want in the first place. Some of us have the resources and strong desire like Dan has to leave the other manufacturers in the dust and become manufacturers ourselves providing those bodies and parts, filling the huge gap that exists now between us and the big companies. Forget them, we'll give those modelers like ourselves what they want. The result?? We ourselves make the future of the hobby. We don't wait for the manufacturers to do it because all they can think about is how much will they make. They really don't care where the hobby goes and as soon as the revenue goes down, they're more than willing to "cut and run". We won't. Whew !! Thanks for sticking with me on this. Try it --You'll like it.
    Last edited by hot ford coupe; 06-18-07 at 10:20 PM.
    Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truck load of brains. Have the courage to trust your own beliefs. Don't be swayed by those with louder voices. W.S. Maugham :)
    QUOTE QUOTE #4

  5. whodaky's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Damn, I need to re-read and think about this a bit more!
    Geoff aka whodaky
    QUOTE QUOTE #5

  6. Rick's Avatar Member
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    Geoff.......re-read Dan's reply. He puts things in perspective.

    Rick
    QUOTE QUOTE #6

  7. hot ford coupe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I have a feeling that I may have missed your point, Rick. I thought you were commenting on the longevity of large scale building and where and how the hobby will go from here. I'll boil down what I said to make it much simpler. Don't forget, I'm loaded up with pain medication for my booboo hip and I may not be the most coherent crayon in the box.

    If you're talking only about the future of large scale building, then my point was to figure out why you build, find others with similar thoughts, organize and get the word out like Dan said by "taking it to the masses", showing off at car and model shows. That way, we find folks who may never have dreamed of getting involved in the hobby like we do. That's what all that baloney was about, why I build. It wasn't to show off but to have a reader say, "hey, I think just like that and I'm going to go in that direction also". It's sort of a botched attempt at lead by example.

    If you're talking just about the 1/8 scale aftermarket parts availability, then Dan's answer is spot on correct. That's why I said the future is in our hands and not the manufacturers' hands. The manufacturers don't care a box of ziti about our area of the hobby. They're just business men. If it makes good money, you'll see some things coming out, but they may not be what you want. It's only what makes more schekels for them. If it doesn't make any money, they'll just cut and run and leave us with "oh well".
    My take on the thing is like the old phrase, "if you want something done right, do it yourself. If you don't know how to do it, then find a way to learn how. My greatest goal in modeling was to be able to be "free of the kit and manufacturers". If I want a part like a 46 Ford dashboard, I'll just figure out a way to make it myself. I don't have the time to sit around and wait for someone else to do it. I also don't like spending a ton of money on something I may be able to do for a lot less. I don't have that kind of dough laying around. On SMC, there is such an abundance of great info and a very large group of potential teachers who are more than happy to share that knowledge, you can't help but learn some scratchbuilding. The only thing is that scratchbuilding is the only way to get what you need as soon as you want and at the best price available. You can wait for someone to make it available after you request it but plan on waiting a while before you can get it. It does take a lot of time to master a body. Scratchbuilding does require a lot of practice and time also so your only option may be just to wait until Dan can get into production and produce a literal parts store where in time, you can get whatever you want.

    I hope I made things a bit clearer here. I now have to take 2 more Percocets and I'll be in painless land.
    Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truck load of brains. Have the courage to trust your own beliefs. Don't be swayed by those with louder voices. W.S. Maugham :)
    QUOTE QUOTE #7

  8. Don Garrett's Avatar Asst. Administrator
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    Is this going to come out in a paper back version?
    Grandpa McGurk.....Steppin' Large and Livin' easy.
    TDRinnovations.com
    QUOTE QUOTE #8

  9. hot ford coupe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Wait until you see the movie. The trailer alone is 45 minutes long.
    Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truck load of brains. Have the courage to trust your own beliefs. Don't be swayed by those with louder voices. W.S. Maugham :)
    QUOTE QUOTE #9

  10. Deuces-wild's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I can't wait till it comes out on DVD.
    Be nice or else ~1~**
    QUOTE QUOTE #10

  11. Rick's Avatar Member
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    Lets put this thread to bed.........
    QUOTE QUOTE #11

  12. hot ford coupe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I think that's a good idea. I also think it's a good idea for my wife to put me to bed. Now I'm even driving her nuts. Nobody understands me. The cat runs away, my friends sound like -snore, snore
    Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truck load of brains. Have the courage to trust your own beliefs. Don't be swayed by those with louder voices. W.S. Maugham :)
    QUOTE QUOTE #12

  13. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Ten years later! . . .and my two cents.

    Where is modelling going? Large scale models in specific?

    I like working in the larger scales because I get more satisfaction from it. I do not like making all the compromises of the smaller scales! Rather than a painted or suggested detail, I want to make THAT detail. I also enjoy the heft of a built chassis. Soon, I hope, I will be pouring aluminum to start making the sump and valve covers for my Alfa engine. Eventually, (once I get my Model A chassis done) I'll be hammering fenders, I've made and purchased small English wheels to help with that. -Working in sheet metal does slow things down a lot! using RTV State Of The Hobby and resins, and fiber glass, and vacuum forming would be a quicker way, but I am also concerned with my models longevity.

    We've been told that plastics floating in our oceans, and in our land fills will last for hundreds of years, but in a show case they, some, can deteriorate very quickly. I've read recently (thank you GETTY FOUNDATION) that many plastics are self destructive, that they contain in themselves gases that in a closed environment, like a display case, can adversely affect other items in that display case. -The worse so far are neoprene and PVC, and many rubbers, synthetic as well as organic. -And because of this new concern museums are looking at plastic items with caution.

    For many years I took great pride in the displays we had at Paul Freiler's Historical Models, and I was very careful with the displaying and cleaning of all the models left in my care. We, I, did not realize how destructive the fluorescent lighting was! Fluorescent lights produce a lot of UV light which reacts badly with some plastics, it can fade many paints, and aesthetically, it gives a bluish cast. Incandescent lights are actually less destructive except for the heat they produce, and we'll just have to wait for a while to see what LED's do?

    So, metal and wood are left? Nothing lasts for ever.

    Back to scale and satisfaction. We've all admired a fine piece of work, something so small and wonderful, or a well made part of steel, or excuse me Roger, billet aluminum. So? size doesn't really matter as much as quality. Choose for yourself, my hands and eyes are not as good as they were, and I like to work as closely to prototype as possible, as closely as I can. I enjoy the effort. I do hope that what I make will be appreciated after I'm gone, and that some future episode of Antiques Roadshow will ask my great grand niece, "So you are related to (Insert your name) did you know that this is a bit of history?"

    I also like working in the larger scales, because "The Industry" doesn't! -with the increasing affordability of 3D printers, (and already) down-loadable computer models, scale and size directly proportional to your wallet size, many subjects are possible, that weren't and this will improve. Also the existence now of Print Shops where you can send your computer files to have them print the part for you. (Size/Scale/Wallet!)

    I, DO, go on!

    And?


    I hope this dialog does as well, -maybe in another ten years? -Don
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #13

  14. southpier's Avatar Active Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I'm feeling philosophical today...... Where do we go from here?
    "if you head down the road about a half-mile, turn left where the old oak tree State Of The Hobby used to be, and then go right when you pass Mae Shannon's house that she sold to that guy from another place, you'll be closer to there than you are now."
    QUOTE QUOTE #14

  15. Richard Bartrop's Avatar Active Member
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    Obviously not nearly as many people are going to be doing modeling at the level we've seen here as there are who just want something to build over a weekend, but it's also something that doesn't need the support of kit manufacturers. People were making models when clay tablets were the latest in hi-tech media, and I don't think there's an reason to think there won't be peole who want to make a model of a car when all the kitmakers have closed their doors, and the only place you can find an automobile is in a museum.
    QUOTE QUOTE #15

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