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  1. Bugatti Fan's Avatar Established Member
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    Noel
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    What are people's views on models built from parts generated on a 3D printer?

    It was generally understood that Scratch Building was where the modeller made all the parts using conventional machines and hand skills then built and painted the model.

    With the advent of 3D printing the skill is more in the CAD Drawing rather than physically making parts, so effectively a kit is being manufactured, so in essence can making a model from 3D printed parts actually be called 'Scratch Building'

    This question is bound to be a bit contentious. I do however appreciate that a lot of programming skill is needed to master 3D CAD but the skill set is different to scratch building by more traditional methods.

    It will be interesting to hear different viewpoints.
    QUOTE QUOTE #1

  2. PeterDaicos's Avatar Active Member
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    I would like to be able to master CAD drawing to make 3D parts - but only as casting 3D Printed Models Scratch Built? patterns. My philosophy is if it is large scale, it has to be in metal.
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  3. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Some words get too much importance attached to them?

    Artist? Genius? Scratch-built?

    Drop the above term out of the discussion, and it becomes an issue of whether "they" are building a model? -And the answer is, yes. Yes they are building a model.

    The absolute best modeler I have known personally is a retired engineer. Allen Hess. Really superior aircraft models! His models were made the "old-fashioned way". One time, he carved a white styro-foam plank into the shape of the old Northup flying wing, correctly replicating the airfoils along its span. Laying up fiber glass over that, then hollowing out the area that was to be the cockpit. Which had a vacuum formed Plex canopy. He made Photo-etched details years before they became common. Photographic film was used to correctly depict both the lenses and dial faces of all the many columns of dials present in aircraft of that time. Landing gear were machined using a then brand new Unimat lathe. (like Roger's) Panel lines were scribed using old phonograph needles! The whole thing painted in automotive lacquer 3D Printed Models Scratch Built? . (Back then you could still buy the "good stuff" in California.)

    And,

    His day job was designing wind tunnel models for the space shuttle, and other projects. The first time I ever saw a stereo-lithographic object, (40 years ago?) was a partial model component that Mr. Hess created to correctly model the flow of air in a jet engine.

    I have lost touch with Mr. Hess, he has long ago retired, and the modeling community in Southern California has almost completely evaporated away. But if he were to be modeling now, I am sure he would take advantage of 3D printing. His only concern would probably be it's longevity?

    Plastics even in a showcase, can deteriorate. -Now sintered metal? Or "Printing" a mold to pour metal into? Thats got lots of possibilities!

    Just my two cents, yours truly, Don
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 01-11-22 at 10:21 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
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  4. Twokidsnosleep's Avatar Established Member
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    It is funny across how many genres of my hobbies this same question gets asked

    I whole heartily embrace new technologies, when I can afford them, and try to learn and advance my knowledge and skills.
    That is what keeps things fun and interesting for me. 3D printer purchased last year and looking to lathe and mill metal this year.
    I do not concern myself with people arguing over scratch built 3D Printed Models Scratch Built? , shake and bake, assembler modeller and all those terms to generate so much drama��
    QUOTE QUOTE #4

  5. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    It's an hard topic. For my, people with two left hand when trying physically to do something, can be genius with a computer and prepare the program for the 3-D printer. And then? They can do mass production if they want, which is not the esprit of modelling.
    On the other side, if they can be happy with that, why not? I'm happy when a project is taking years to be completed...
    QUOTE QUOTE #5

  6. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    That's a interesting point. Does it matter if a model is "One and Done"?

    There have been several instances where a small series of models are made, Wingrove and others.

    There have also been manufacturers who have offered assembled models, Pocher did this at one time.

    Anyone who makes a casting 3D Printed Models Scratch Built? , does so using molds, and most fiberglass lay-ups are also done with reusable molds. (Not all, as some choose to employ materials that do not survive the demolding part of the process.

    I have 5 axles so far but no winner, one lost to the evil city of Las Vegas, and will be starting a 3rd radiator soon. And my intention is to make a small series of Type 35s, -they are all models, or will be, hopefully, someday.

    What about Amalgam, the elephant in the room?
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #6

  7. Bugatti Fan's Avatar Established Member
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    Interesting replies to my original question. Thanks for the feed back. Look forward to more viewpoints.
    3D printing has certainly revolutionised elements of the hobby.
    QUOTE QUOTE #7

  8. JunkGTZ's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I'm not deep into this enough to have a strong opinion about it, but there is something to be said for artisan/craftsmanship and I use that term to refer to an experienced set of hands shaping, fashioning, taking something from a rough form into a detailed form, doing so part by part, piece by piece, eventually arriving at a finished form that impresses in its quality, its detail because despite it being a scale replica, it looks like you could crank it and send it on its way. When I look at Roger's Cadillac or his Lincoln that's exactly what I feel and it is similar with other builders here too. When I see a Pocher kit, it's impressive too, but not in the same way. I suppose that is because I know it's from a kit with parts fashioned in a small factory for mass consumption and because the kit didn't originate from the mind of the builder who didn't have the benefit of instructions but rather, collected pictures, blueprints, and books to guide him or her and then created their own plans, including solutions to building challenges. Those that modify the kits by creating their own improved or more detailed parts, or making a different version from the original kit are sort of a hybrid builder - part artisan/craftsman and part hobbyist kit builder. The builders of 3d printed models are yet another hybrid, and I suppose are sort of a modern version of the artisan/craftsman if they draft their own files. The unifying factor is that there is not a kit, but there is also not the same level of hands-on forming of parts and pieces. I myself cannot get around the difference of impression of the work of the artisan/craftsman versus the somewhat lesser impression of a finished kit-based work (but I do enjoy them a lot). I have seen lots of models in museums and always have a sense of awe about them. Those are almost all craftsmen built and sometimes have placards telling the builder's story - projects that took years to build. The thing that ties it all together is that all the builders all enjoyed the build, and we all get to savor the finished results! So whether it's craftsman built bit by bit or kit built we all get to enjoy. Not everyone has the skills and patience to be the scratch building craftsman and for those of us who don't, we still get to enjoy being makers of things too. Build on folks!
    QUOTE QUOTE #8

  9. PeterDaicos's Avatar Active Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MODEL A MODEL View Post
    What about Amalgam, the elephant in the room?
    Superb but the range is very same-old, I love 8C's as much as the next person but they have been done to death a bit (haven't they heard of the 8CLT Maserati?) What is the elephant in the room?
    Last edited by PeterDaicos; 01-18-22 at 07:37 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #9

  10. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    An "elephant in the room" is an old saying, a reference to something so obvious that it goes unnoticed.

    Amalgam, have been in business 10 years now? Most of their original offerings were Formula 1 cars, with engineering data supplied to them, (I believe.)

    They have broadened their catalog to include many cars and in several scales. The beauty of their method, is of course that they can print a model, save all the data, and retrieve it at a future date, a minimum of overhead, and an economical expenditure of resources. Printing only what is needed, when it's needed.

    And, though they, Amalgam, probably do print "in house", -for someone wanting to try this technology, there are now many businesses that will print your parts for you. Computer model files can be sent back and forth, allowing use of the more expensive, "better" machines. You don't have to own a 3D printer.
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 01-19-22 at 10:00 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #10

  11. fanatic's Avatar Active Member
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    Okay, I'll play: To define things beyond what matters, I think it's all about how you look at it.
    Elephants first; Amalgam makes awesome models at levels of precision that are mind boggling. I love seeing the detail, the perfect lines, but hey, they are pros, working with huge budgets and the best equipment, so that kind of makes you expect the best. Technically scratch-built, but not what I think of as such. But I'd still love to own a few!

    Technology next; Computer skills are impressive, but not what I think of as scratch built 3D Printed Models Scratch Built? . Cool stuff, and I like the results, but you never look at the results and go "wow, how did they make that come out so real" or "look how they took an "X" and made it into that."

    Kit building; Many are detailed, assembled with superior skill, and fabulous, but not scratch built 3D Printed Models Scratch Built? in my view.

    So, what do I think of as scratch-built? A build using a combination of skills such as sculpting, welding and machining, turning raw materials into a pleasing representation of something that may [or may not] exist in reality. It can be precise, whimsical, or accentuated to emphasize certain aspects or features, and it may or may not come across as art, but it does come across clearly as the intended object [car for us]. Can it include 3-D printed parts? Sure, but after a certain percentage of printed parts, it's less appealing to my taste and less impressive [even though it may demonstrate great computer skills]

    Again, this is completely subjective, and others will have different opinions and tastes, but this is my answer [at least for today] And as in junkGTZ's excellent post [ #7 above] said, as long as you are enjoying what you are doing, it really doesn't matter.
    Last edited by fanatic; 01-26-22 at 08:46 PM.
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  12. Nortley's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    When I lived in the area, one of my favorite places was the Maritime Museum in San Francisco. An exhibit that really grabbed me were the ship models that were made by French war prisoners in English prisons during the Napoleonic years. The models, made for sale, were fantastically detailed, plausibly designed, and made out of soup bones salvaged from the pot. Strong evidence indeed that whatever the material or process, a good model is truly a product of mind and hands.
    Scorpio - Builds models the way the prototype should have been built.
    QUOTE QUOTE #12

  13. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    I whole heartedly agree with Buck!

    -and I too have seen the models he referred to; and was so impressed that I tried to do some work in bone. -Ever drilled or sawed bone? Ever had a dentist drill for a filling? That smell? It's awful!
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #13

  14. Bugatti Fan's Avatar Established Member
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    Noel
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    There was mention about Gerald Wingrove having made repeats of some of his models.
    Indeed he did, but the artisan craftsmanship was a feature of all his builds. He still had to beat out wings and body shells, make wire wheels using a milling drilling machine with rotary head, mill and turn each individual part, solder parts as necessary etc.
    For 3D printing of parts the skill is really in the programming using 3D Cad software. Repeatability is therefore very easy once the original programmed parts are proved.
    Back in the early days Pocher did have a group of operatives to build up models. My guess is that most of the models would just be ok builds due to it being a routine job to them.
    Amalgam's approach is using a core of specialists to design in 3D, produce various parts to bring together and finish models to a very high standard. A far cry from the models of Gerald Wingrove, Rex Hays, Henri Baigent, Olive Sans, Michele Conti, Carlo Brianza to name a few artisan model makers.
    QUOTE QUOTE #14

  15. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Alistair Brookman, Don Oreck, Saul Santos, Tom Kirn, Louis Chenot, and Marshall Buck.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #15

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