Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 engine model

[stompin]

I have been working on a model of an Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 engine for some time and while not finished, is starting to look like look like the model I hoped I could draw when I started. I am making it in sketchup. Not because sketchup is the right program to use, but because that is what I have. I am thinking that once the faces are done in sketchup, I am going to try Blender to animate it and give the surface the right textures.

I am looking for information on it so I can complete it. There are a few title shot blueprints of the engine to be found online but little else. Any information on the internal parts, or the casintings would help.

I have never seen one in person, and have guessed my way out from some basic values and known values from the head along with pictures. There are very few items in it that I have not guessed at its dimensions. Some of the external details, I want to get right so that it looks right to anyone that may have seen one, and I would like to see it finished correct.

Here is a link to Some pictures of it:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vEC7myuoeHXzxVJP7

I am looking for a number of specific things but am also looking for some basics like how the oil filters work or dimensions of the accessories like the starter, or descriptions of a part that could help me finish this. As I said, there is very little I know about it, so anything you know will help.

I am looking for:

1. Anything on the con rods, pistons, valves, cam, crank. There is next to nothing about the rotating assembly that I know for sure.

2. The internal gears, I think I have the number of teeth right, but diameter and width are guesses, and gear tooth profile and twist is a nightmare for trial and error. The 2 centre gears on the crank have some voodoo going on with oil flow and fastening. I have the parts of the springs and ring, but think there is something I am missing from it.

3.The clutch. I have all but one of the plates, I think. Don't know where the missing one goes. I also don't know how the clutch pedal works it.

3. The height and width of the block and crank case at any section.. These dimensions would square up my drawing considerably, and help with the guesses of the rest of it.

4. On the rear of the oil pan, each fin ends in its own way, and there are a 6 that I can not see. If you look at my model, they are on the oil pan, rear, 3 groups of 2. So from either side, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9. Do they fade into the pan like the all do at the front or do they follow the other larger rear ones in some way?

5. The distance between the exterior bolts, especially around the crank case, supercharger, steering box and oil pan. Plus, the water inlets on the block and what I think are the frost plugs.

6. The path the oil goes through the crank case, and the path the water goes through the block.

7. the underside of the cam cover is finned and braced, but how? I can not find a picture of the cam cover underside.

8. The oil pump. I think there is a difference between the 2 series, there is the way Jim Stokes does it. But which holes are an inlet and which are an outlet? What path is the oil moving through the block into the pump? How is the pump/supercharge coupled together?

9. Anything about the transmission, while I have not started on it much, I already know that I have very little real information.

10. What is going on inside the arms on the crank case?

There is plenty more, and anything would help.

Thank you.

[MODEL A MODEL]

HELLO!!!!!

I have been waiting for this for a while!!!!

Tom gave me a few peeks at his work, a few weeks back, and I have been bursting with anticipation to see him post his work!

PLEASE! If your the type to not click on attachments? do yourself a favor, it is masterful what he has done! and check out his work!!!

-Don

[stompin]

Hello Don,

I feel like I should apologize for how long I have been teasing you. Thanks for the push.

[MODEL A MODEL]

My pleasure and honor! -I really do look at this as a bit of Master Class Digital Modelling!

I think everyone will agree with me. I am very glad you have finally posted, and I hope you get at least a few of the dimensions you want!

The guys here are pretty well connected, and who knows?

-Don

[MODEL A MODEL]

I have been trying to upload a few of your images to the forum, to get them on the banner, -for all to see. But they are too large?

Before coming to work I tried several times, and gave up. I even tried to photograph the screen to produce a jpeg, and ran out of time.

So? I am restating your address for access to your work. I think everybody should see this. It really is impressive!

[MODEL A MODEL]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vEC7myuoeHXzxVJP7

[MODEL A MODEL]

I hope that works!
-Don

[stompin]

It must be the size, some of the pictures you have and the pictures from the link are large pictures. That is why I used the google photos link. From there you can download the full picture, or you click and zoom and it only downloads the zoom level. One catch about using that site is the double organization. If you rename all the files to order them, you still have to click and sort the tiles after uploading them as there is no way to sort them once uploaded beyond click and drag. If you want to be able to preserve the order if they are downloaded, you have to rename. If you want them to show in order on screen the only way is to upload them one at a time in order or click and drag after they are uploaded in bulk.

There is some really well hidden terrible geometry in my drawing. My excuse is that I have a hard time drawing it out proper knowing that it is wrong. I lose the ability to scale to fit with all the roundness of the engine, especially around the supercharger. So any small change eliminates weeks of drawing sometimes. End up getting lots of practice drawing in.

[MODEL A MODEL]

Importing the images as an attachment works, but I had hoped to get at least one on the banner to properly display your incredible work!

As soon as I finish my Bugatti's axle and radiator, I am inspired to return to the sand - casting pattern for my 2300 engine's crank-case. And cast it in Zinc! (I can melt enough Zinc to pour the volume I will need, but not enough Aluminum)

[MODEL A MODEL]

For anyone trying to improve on the Italeri or Pocher kits? Tom's work is "the ticket!"

[stompin]

whooo that black and white looks good.

[Pouln]

This is indeed a fantastic set of drawings. Do you have an estimation of the amount of hours you put into the creation of this?
I’m also interested to hear what your future plans are with these drawings after you have finished them.

[stompin]

Thank you. I have no idea how many hours I have into this, but I have been at it one way or another for years. When watching tv or on the computer I would have a second screen up of sketchup, at the time a free program that you could add plugins to that made it full featured. I would take models that others have made and Frankenstein them up. my favourite was to take pre war race cars and put on 60s suspension. There is a nice model of a Monza on there that I used a bunch and it just had a black box for an engine, as do all the models there. I figured it needed an engine and tried to make one.

Well, that was years ago and I have been on and off doodling ever since. I thought I could look up some dimensions of the parts, mount points, and have a model made after a few months, put it up on 3d warehouse, and move on. Well it turns out that information is hard to find. I might not be the best at searching for information in Italian, but basic information on that engine is not out there. I know a story, that I heard second hand, but it really makes me want to finish this.

Once I finish drawing the shape of it out I need to learn a few programs to make it look better and animate it. I had no real plans for this except to look at it. I have not looked into what I could do with it, so I don't know. Don is making his model of one and I will make any sectional drawings he needs to help. If someone gives me an idea of what a modeler needs in a drawing packet, I will happily make one once I am done.

When done, it is going to be 20x the file size 3d warehouse permits. If I tried to put in piece by piece it would end up being many more then 20 because all the textures that would be repeated, and some parts are larger on their own. So i don't know where it will end up, and have not looked into it very much. Sketchup still has a free version, web based, that you could use. You would have to assemble it, and it would be about 50-100 parts at least. That would take me a long time to make that I think.

I have never taken an engine apart before, and just have a theory about how it all works and what the magic oily bits inside should look like. I am running out of imagination and skill. There is lots that I don’t know about the 2300, but I think I have it where I really only need a handful of dimensions to make it all fall in place. With some understanding of some more parts, I hope to have a good stand in for the real thing.

[stompin]

Some Updates.

I have been redrawing the crank case mostly, trying to get the intake side mounting arm to match. The angle of the slope under the steering box looks different in every picture I have. I have the distance between the bolts on the steering box at 185mm but i could argue that 180-195 is correct. If someone told me that the mounting points were offset, I would believe them but do have them straight for now. I still have no idea what the inside of the arms is hiding. It sure looks like the crank cases were moved around using a rod that stuck in the hole on the the underside of each arm, so there should be a receiver for that but that could be a hole that passes through to the other side.

More updated pictures in full resolution here https://photos.app.goo.gl/vEC7myuoeHXzxVJP7

Still looking for any information on this engine, pictures or a description of parts.

[MODEL A MODEL]

Quite the "Rabbit hole!"

And, again thank you for sharing!

Happy Holidays!