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Pocher Fiat Restoration
Goal amount for this year: 518 USD, Received: 415.00 USD (80%)
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Pocher Fiat Restoration Pocher Fiat Restoration Pocher Fiat Restoration Pocher Fiat Restoration Pocher Fiat Restoration
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    1. Kit: , by (Established Member) RC-Archer is offline
      Builder Last Online: Feb 2016 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  (1 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 0
      Started: 11-09-09 Build Revisions: Never  
      Not Supported

      So I just won a built-up Pocher Fiat on Ebay. The Fiat appears to be unpainted and built 100% box stock Pocher Fiat Restoration . The seller says that it is nicely patinaed. Yes, it is true that the car is a rusty piece of junk but I intend to fix that up. :D

      Anyway while I'm waiting for the car to arrive, I have a couple questions that is keeping me awake at night.

      1. The car will/may need new drive chains. What is the pitch/size of the chain? I have a couple sources for small machine made chains that must be better than the hand made kit chains.

      2. Has anybody ever made laser-cut wooden wheels? I have had custom cut laser wooden parts done before and I think that it is do able for this model. In fact I can probably, do both the wheels and the floor boards out of one sheet of wood.

      3. Any tips?

      Here is a couple pictures from the ebay listing:


      Pocher Fiat Restoration
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  1. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    Yeah, I'm sure that in 1907, the Fiat was one heck of a car!

    The original car was 3.06 meters long. The model is 480 mm long. That's about 1/6th scale.

    Here is a picture of the of Pocher chain and the 6 mm chain. See the mistake the original builder made on the chain. Instead of alternating the chain plates, he went under to over. Unfortunately he never did the other chain and I don't have enough extra links to make another chain so I'm going to adapt the 6mm chain to the model. I applaud those who had to make their own chain. That must not have been fun.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #17

  2. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    To bad about the roller being the wrong size, it would have been great to finally see a chain replacement that was easy to get. Like you said just mod the sprocket.

    As for the real Fiat it was huge.

    3.06 meter's translates to

    1/8 scale = 382mm
    Pocher kit = 480mm
    1/6 scale = 510mm

    RC if you have any scrap chain leftover could I talk you into sending me a few inches. Ill see about a chain conversion.
    QUOTE QUOTE #18

  3. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaleMotorcars View Post
    To bad about the roller being the wrong size, it would have been great to finally see a chain replacement that was easy to get. Like you said just mod the sprocket.

    As for the real Fiat it was huge.

    3.06 meter's translates to

    1/8 scale = 382mm
    Pocher kit = 480mm
    1/6 scale = 510mm

    RC if you have any scrap chain leftover could I talk you into sending me a few inches. Ill see about a chain conversion.
    I figured that the Fiat scales out to 1/6.3 but it probably scales to 1/8th in Italian

    PM me your address. I was gonna give my girlfriend the old chain to wear as a bracelet but she wouldn't appreciate a rusty chain. You can have it instead.
    I'll also send you a piece of the 6mm chain as well. 6mm chain is not going to be a tight fit but since it is not a powered model, it will be fine.

    BTW Dan, If you're going to try to make a chain conversion, I might suggest that you go to .147 chain as it would look closer to prototype scale.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    Last edited by RC-Archer; 11-28-09 at 06:41 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #19

  4. 3.Star's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Michael J.
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    In the datasheet of "Legendary Italian Cars" the 1907 130hp GP Racer is listed with a wheelbase of 2845mm, sounds better to me like the wheelbase of 1450mm which is mentioned in Pocher's manual together with the overall length of 3060mm.

    Cheers

    Michael
    QUOTE QUOTE #20

  5. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    I think the track width of the car was more like 1450mm.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #21

  6. 3.Star's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Michael J.
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    Got a pic attached, which shows a guy standing next to the F2, it doesn't seem to be a subcompact racer.
    Last edited by 3.Star; 02-08-11 at 06:47 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #22

  7. Daniel's Avatar Established Member
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    Daniel
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    The Fiat F2 chassis was around 3760mm long. Measuring the Pocher chassis at 470mm long means it is spot on 1:8 scale. 3760/8 = 470mm. The wheel base was 2850mm and this corresponds exactly to the Pocher model at 1:8 scale.
    QUOTE QUOTE #23

  8. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    Yikes!! That means that the Fiat really was a MONSTER of a car. I just checked the numbers on the tires and they're 875 x 135!! (34.4" tall tires)

    Interesting. The Pocher manual states that the F2 was 3060 mm long by 1450 mm wide and that's where I got my numbers from.-=';


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #24

  9. jared's Avatar Active Member
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    It seems that sometimes the Pocher paperwork can be misleading (or wrong). I have the Bugatti 50T engine kit that has errors printed on the box. In English, the box states that the kit contains 258 parts. In all of the other languages, it states 285 parts. I will admit that I cannot read the other languages, but the numbers are typed as numbers. I assume they would tranlslate the same. I tried to take a picture of this, but my cheap camera would not focus enough to be able to read the type.
    QUOTE QUOTE #25

  10. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    Something gets lost in the translation, huh?

    I've disassembled the car. Unlike the Alfa, the Fiat has quite a number of parts that were glued together. The builder did a decent job gluing Pocher Fiat Restoration the parts together so I had a little fun breaking the parts apart with minimal damage. I got all the brass bits off and they're soaking in vinegar right now to remove the tarnish. Lemon juice works as well but vinegar is cheaper.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #26

  11. jared's Avatar Active Member
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    I used Brasso to buff up the bigger parts and ammonia on the smaller parts on my Fiat kit. You will probably want to shoot them with a clear coat Pocher Fiat Restoration before you re-assemble. Otherwise, they will become tarnished pretty quickly. I had parts that I cleaned and did not clear for a couple weeks, and they had already shown signs of tarnish. I was surprised by how much tarnish the parts on my kit were, considering the kit was never taken out of the box before me. The brass part of the grill had a fingerprint on it probable from whoever put it in the box at the factory. I even cleared the chain after I assembled it. I have seen too many of these kits that were built a long time ago with very rusty chains.

    Good luck with the resto!
    QUOTE QUOTE #27

  12. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    Thanks, Jarad, I'm thinking about clear coating the brass parts.

    Today I modified a rear sprocket to accept the larger 4mm roller of the 6mm chain and it didn't work. I knew that it might not work and took a gamble and the dice didn't roll my way. The chain didn't fit. So now I'm thinking about different alternatives including replacing the sprocket with a stock 6mm sprocket to casting Pocher Fiat Restoration new parts from resin Pocher Fiat Restoration or metal.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #28

  13. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    So I decided that the Fiat engine really must have cast metal engine parts so here goes a mini tutorial..

    First I make a mold box out of lego. These parts are the easiest to mold because they're flat on one side. So al I had to do was stick the parts on some tape.

    Then I filled the mold with RTV and let it set for 2 hours. I'm using 1:1 RTV here

    Remember my paint shaker? It works great as a vibrator!! You could see the bubble rising up thru the RTV. When the RTV has set, I flipped the mold over, removed the tape and lightly coated the RTV with Petrolium Jelly. Then I built up another layer of legos and filled the reverse side with RTV.

    When the RTV has set overnight, the next day, I removed the mold box and split the RTV mold. I cut sprues and vents into the mold. and then dusted the mold with talc powder.

    I've also molded some shapes into the mold to act as sprues. Here is a picture of my Lee Production Pot warming up. I'm using lead free Silver Solder which is basically the same composition as pewter plus 4% silver. But if you shop carefully, the Silver Solder is only about $10 a pound vs about $23 a pound for pewter.

    The casted parts. In four tries, I got about 9 good parts. It was a good night. Tomorrow, I'm going to try to cast the rocker arms which are going to be harder to do.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #29

  14. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    Last night I made a mold of the rockers. What I did different here is that because the rockers are double side, I used modeling clay (sulfur free) to embed the rockers halfway. Then when the RTV Pocher Fiat Restoration set, I flipped the mold and removed the clay and filled the other side of the mold.

    Today, I attempted to cast the rockers. The rockers were very difficult to cast and I probably casted about 30 times. Best part about metal casting is that if it didn't work, you could always toss the metal part back into the pot. I finally figured the "trick" to casting these parts and got about 8 decent castings. Whew!! I was afraid that I was going to have to get my home made spin caster out. (tin can on a string).


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    QUOTE QUOTE #30

  15. RC-Archer's Avatar Established Member
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    BTW Wear gloves and goggles before working with molten metal.

    I've mocked up the engine with the parts. I still need to find a way to finish the soft metal parts like buffing or wire brushing.


    Pocher Fiat Restoration
    Last edited by RC-Archer; 12-06-09 at 05:13 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #31

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