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Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis
Goal amount for this year: 518 USD, Received: 415.00 USD (80%)
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Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis
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    1. Kit: , by (Member) 220452cmb is offline
      Builder Last Online: Aug 2010 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  Thanks: 0
      Started: 02-08-09 Build Revisions: Never  
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      Hi everyone. I'm new to this site but thought you might like to see photos of my Pocher Rolls scratchbuilt project. I bought the kit assuming it would be highly detailed and faithful to the original. Some parts are great such as the chassis rails, spoked wheels, radiator and basic engine blocks. Once I started researching the car, I soon realised that a lot of the parts are not at all accurate and some are completely out of scale i.e. carburettor and foot pedals. I am lucky that I have one of the foremost vintage Rolls Royce restoration specialists only four miles from where I live and they have been a great help in letting me photograph and measure real Phantoms which they are working on. I then decided to make my model as accurate as I could possibly make it so, although I am using stock parts where they are good enough (after some reworking) most of the rest of the model, down to every visible nut and bolt, is being scratchbuilt from brass or aluminium. This is going to be a very long project to complete but most of the engine and gearbox is done and I am now working on the firewall (bulkhead) and pedals. There is over 100 hours work in the firewall which is made from sections of aluminium sheet welded together and the electrical conduit which runs round the face of the firewall is made up of 72 separate parts. This is a great site and I have really enjoyed reading through the threads.

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  1. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
    Name
    Daniel
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    Aug 2005
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    Great photos. Can you tell us more about that firewall.... sorry bulkhead..
    QUOTE QUOTE #2

  2. Don Garrett's Avatar Asst. Administrator
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    Don
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    Wow, and welcome to the site, we really appreciate you sharing your Rolls us. ;';;';
    Grandpa McGurk.....Steppin' Large and Livin' easy.
    TDRinnovations.com
    QUOTE QUOTE #3

  3. Mario Lucchini's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Mario
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    790
    Quote Originally Posted by 220452cmb View Post
    Hi everyone. I'm new to this site but thought you might like to see photos of my Pocher Rolls scratchbuilt project. I bought the kit assuming it would be highly detailed and faithful to the original. Some parts are great such as the chassis rails, spoked wheels, radiator and basic engine blocks. Once I started researching the car, I soon realised that a lot of the parts are not at all accurate and some are completely out of scale i.e. carburettor and foot pedals. I am lucky that I have one of the foremost vintage Rolls Royce restoration specialists only four miles from where I live and they have been a great help in letting me photograph and measure real Phantoms which they are working on. I then decided to make my model as accurate as I could possibly make it so, although I am using stock parts where they are good enough (after some reworking) most of the rest of the model, down to every visible nut and bolt, is being scratchbuilt from brass or aluminium. This is going to be a very long project to complete but most of the engine and gearbox is done and I am now working on the firewall (bulkhead) and pedals. There is over 100 hours work in the firewall which is made from sections of aluminium sheet welded together and the electrical conduit which runs round the face of the firewall is made up of 72 separate parts. This is a great site and I have really enjoyed reading through the threads.

    Hey!....welcome to the site...wonderful job for what you've shown.
    As you can see in the posting, I'm trying to superdetail a Pocher Rolls too, so I would be very interested if you could share data of the real car with us....I have found little material on the web....

    Thanks much

    Mario
    QUOTE QUOTE #4

  4. Rick's Avatar Member
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    Rick
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    Welcome to the site! Please check your personal messages and get back to me.

    Rick
    QUOTE QUOTE #5

  5. Hi again. The bulkhead (firewall, whatever!!) is made from 0.8mm thick aluminium sheet. The second photograph shows the main part balanced on top of a Phantom radiator so I could double check that the shape was identical to the real thing behind it. The top of the firewall is not a simple curve but made up of three different radiuses - typical Rolls-Royce! The fourth photo shows the completed model firewall before all the detail was added. The real firewalls on the actual chassis were cast in aluminium, in one piece, which is beyond the scope a model maker. The only way I could replicate it was by building it up in pieces. I always thought that you could not weld aluminium as it's melting point was almost the same as the temperature you need reach to weld it. I was discussing this with the man who recreates all the body panels at the vintage Rolls-Royce restoration workshop, in aluminium, and he taught me how to weld it. For anyone who wants to try it, thin aluminium welding rod and special flux is available from E-Bay and is not expensive. You will need a small butane or propane torch from a DIY store. Any joins that you make need to be a good close fit as the aluminium welding rod is not good at filling gaps. To weld the aluminium, you need to heat it with a soft flame so it heats up gently then keep stroking the metal with the end of a cocktail stick until it starts to leave a scorch mark on the metal. The metal is then at the correct temperature. You then dip the welding rod in the powdered flux and quickly apply it in the flame to the joint where, if the temperature is right, the weld will flow into the joint. It must be said that the welding temperature is VERY close to the melting point of the aluminium so you need to practice on pieces of scrap until you are confident you are not heating the metal too much. The last thing you want to see is a piece of lovingly crafted aluminium, which you have worked on for many hours, crumpling and melting in front of your eyes because it happens very quickly. Believe me, I've been there! The welding process can be a bit scary because you can do so much damage, but if you persevere, I hope you will feel that the results are worth the effort. I settled on 0.8mm sheet because if you try to heat aluminium any thinner Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis than this, you will burn a hole through it. To get the final finish, it is gently polished with a fine grade brass wire brush in a Dremel Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis - don't use a steel brush as it scratches the metal, then fine grade wire wool by hand and finally a good quality metal polish. The two black painted units are from the Pocher kit, but heavily modified, as are the two brown covers. The metal labels on the firewall were sourced from the US and are laser etched so that every letter and number is clearly visible. Sadly, these are no longer available and the standard decals are not as clear.


    Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis
    Attached Images Attached Images Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-firewall-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-firewall-superimposed-60ms-480-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-firewall-2-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-firewall-firewall-3-60ms-jpg 
    QUOTE QUOTE #6

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Mario Lucchini View Post
    Hey!....welcome to the site...wonderful job for what you've shown.
    As you can see in the posting, I'm trying to superdetail a Pocher Rolls too, so I would be very interested if you could share data of the real car with us....I have found little material on the web....

    Thanks much

    Mario
    Hi Mario.

    I'm very impressed by your work! As I said in my first post, I am lucky in that I have a vintage Rolls-Royce restoration company close to my home and I have come to know the boss and staff there quite well over the last year or so, during my many visits. I am allowed unlimited access to the workshops to take photographs, measurements and draw plans. I have taken over 2,000 reference photographs and am STILL finding areas of the chassis that I am unsure about which means yet another visit to check on measurements. If there is anything specific you need a photograph of, I will try to help. You may also be interested to know that there is a CD-ROM available from the Rolls-Royce Enthusiasts Club, in the UK, which contains many (not all) of the original factory plans and blueprints for the Phantom II. The CD-ROM contains a huge amount of information, vital if you want your model to be really accurate but it is only available to Club members.

    Kind regards.


    Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis
    QUOTE QUOTE #7

  7. Mario Lucchini's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Mario
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    790
    Quote Originally Posted by 220452cmb View Post
    Hi Mario.

    I'm very impressed by your work! As I said in my first post, I am lucky in that I have a vintage Rolls-Royce restoration company close to my home and I have come to know the boss and staff there quite well over the last year or so, during my many visits. I am allowed unlimited access to the workshops to take photographs, measurements and draw plans. I have taken over 2,000 reference photographs and am STILL finding areas of the chassis that I am unsure about which means yet another visit to check on measurements. If there is anything specific you need a photograph of, I will try to help. You may also be interested to know that there is a CD-ROM available from the Rolls-Royce Enthusiasts Club, in the UK, which contains many (not all) of the original factory plans and blueprints for the Phantom II. The CD-ROM contains a huge amount of information, vital if you want your model to be really accurate but it is only available to Club members.

    Kind regards.
    Thanks for your prompt answer cmb, I would appreciate a lot if you could mail me photographs you've taken to complete my data....
    My personal mail is:
    mlucchini@gmail.com

    Also I would like to know how can I get a copy of the CD you mention, if I could have blueprints of this car I would be a most happy fellow!!...

    Thanks much again

    Mario
    QUOTE QUOTE #8

  8. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    I would also be very interested in the photos you took and the CD. you can reach me at the Contact us link or a PM. Thanks.
    QUOTE QUOTE #9

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ScaleMotorcars View Post
    I would also be very interested in the photos you took and the CD. you can reach me at the Contact us link or a PM. Thanks.
    Hello again.
    Here are some more photos of my Pocher Rolls-Royce Phantom II. For modellers who are interested in being REALLY accurate with their models, Rolls-Royce only ever made the chassis, engines and running gear for their pre-war cars. The bodies were all built by outside contractors and the body style was specified by the customer. Rolls-Royce would send the completed chassis to the coachbuilders, sometimes on the back of a truck, sometimes by rail, for finishing. According to my research, the whole of the chassis, excluding any moving parts, was brush painted in a matt chocolate brown colour, before it left the factory. Why chocolate brown, I don't know! Several cars I have seen are still this colour on the underside unless they have been over-restored, in which case, the chassis is often painted gloss black or the same colour as the body. Originally, only the parts of the chassis which would be visible from outside would have been finished in gloss.

    Picture 1 is the brake and clutch pedal assembly, with the Pocher original parts at the back. The Pocher designers made a basic mistake with these parts as they made them to bolt directly onto the side of the gearbox/engine. This was how it was done by Alfa Romeo, Bugatti and Mercedes, models of which Pocher also made, but it was never done this way by Rolls-Royce. All three pedals on the Rolls-Royce were bolted to the chassis rails and NOT to the engine/gearbox.
    Picture 2 is the gas pedal assembly.
    Picture 3 is the oil pump shown next to the Pocher original.
    Picture 4 shows two of the crossmembers with extra detailing on the ends where they bolt to the chassis rails and the two brackets in the middle bolt the firewall to the chassis rails for extra support.
    Picture 5 shows the inside of the two chassis rails.There are lots of mouldings on these which I have had to grind off to make them more accurate. I have just started building the chassis lubrication system which was a series of thin oil lines which led to all the moving parts in the chassis. These were routed through the inside of the chassis rails and these will need to be done, along with electrical conduits and fuel lines, before the two chassis rails can be joined together.
    Picture 6 is a close up of the inside of the right hand chassis rail showing the brackets for the handbrake and the shaft which the brake and clutch pedals are fixed to.
    Pictures 7 and 8 show the brackets at each end of the chassis rails. Pocher's version of these was a single cross-head screw for each but I have tried to bring out the detail.
    I'll post some more photos as the build progresses.


    Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis
    Attached Images Attached Images Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-brake-clutch-pedals-pocher-originals-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-gas-pedal-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-oil-pump-pocher-original-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-crossmembers-firewall-brackets-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-chassis-rail-interiors-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-pedal-handbrake-brackets-chassis-rail-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-rear-chassis-bracket-jpg  Pocher Rolls Royce scratchbuilt chassis-front-chassis-bracket-jpg 
    QUOTE QUOTE #10

  10. Mario Lucchini's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Mario
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    Quote Originally Posted by 220452cmb View Post
    Hello again.
    Here are some more photos of my Pocher Rolls-Royce Phantom II. For modellers who are interested in being REALLY accurate with their models, Rolls-Royce only ever made the chassis, engines and running gear for their pre-war cars. The bodies were all built by outside contractors and the body style was specified by the customer. Rolls-Royce would send the completed chassis to the coachbuilders, sometimes on the back of a truck, sometimes by rail, for finishing. According to my research, the whole of the chassis, excluding any moving parts, was brush painted in a matt chocolate brown colour, before it left the factory. Why chocolate brown, I don't know! Several cars I have seen are still this colour on the underside unless they have been over-restored, in which case, the chassis is often painted gloss black or the same colour as the body. Originally, only the parts of the chassis which would be visible from outside would have been finished in gloss.

    Picture 1 is the brake and clutch pedal assembly, with the Pocher original parts at the back. The Pocher designers made a basic mistake with these parts as they made them to bolt directly onto the side of the gearbox/engine. This was how it was done by Alfa Romeo, Bugatti and Mercedes, models of which Pocher also made, but it was never done this way by Rolls-Royce. All three pedals on the Rolls-Royce were bolted to the chassis rails and NOT to the engine/gearbox.
    Picture 2 is the gas pedal assembly.
    Picture 3 is the oil pump shown next to the Pocher original.
    Picture 4 shows two of the crossmembers with extra detailing on the ends where they bolt to the chassis rails and the two brackets in the middle bolt the firewall to the chassis rails for extra support.
    Picture 5 shows the inside of the two chassis rails.There are lots of mouldings on these which I have had to grind off to make them more accurate. I have just started building the chassis lubrication system which was a series of thin oil lines which led to all the moving parts in the chassis. These were routed through the inside of the chassis rails and these will need to be done, along with electrical conduits and fuel lines, before the two chassis rails can be joined together.
    Picture 6 is a close up of the inside of the right hand chassis rail showing the brackets for the handbrake and the shaft which the brake and clutch pedals are fixed to.
    Pictures 7 and 8 show the brackets at each end of the chassis rails. Pocher's version of these was a single cross-head screw for each but I have tried to bring out the detail.
    I'll post some more photos as the build progresses.
    Wow & WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mario
    QUOTE QUOTE #11

  11. hot ford coupe's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Jeffrey
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    Add about a dozen more wows for me too. This is gorgeous work. I'm looking forward to more pictures.
    Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truck load of brains. Have the courage to trust your own beliefs. Don't be swayed by those with louder voices. W.S. Maugham :)
    QUOTE QUOTE #12

  12. Rick's Avatar Member
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    Rick
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    I'll also add a few "WOW'S". Thanks for shareing what you do with the rest of us.
    QUOTE QUOTE #13

  13. Don Garrett's Avatar Asst. Administrator
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    Don
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    I'm in on the Wow's.
    Grandpa McGurk.....Steppin' Large and Livin' easy.
    TDRinnovations.com
    QUOTE QUOTE #14

  14. ScaleMotorcars's Avatar Administrator
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    Daniel
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    So whats next for your build?
    QUOTE QUOTE #15

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