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    1. Kit: , by (VIP/Sponsor) Dougritt is offline
      Builder Last Online: Oct 2019 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  Thanks: 0
      Started: 09-27-11 Build Revisions: Never  
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      I need some help from members. I am building a Pocher Alfa Romeo Monza and am having a hard time identifying some parts on the car. Can anyone help? Thanks guys...

      A. I see copper coils attached to different positions on the supercharger assembly and the carburator. What is this line and where does it attach elsewhere on the car?

      Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-coil-jpg

      B. Some prototypes have this box mounted on the firewall. What is it?

      Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-firewall-box-jpg

      C. What is this device and where do the lines lead?

      Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-firewall-jpg

      D. Coiled lines come from the rear of both manifold covers. Are these connected to the camshafts? What do they do and how are they attached to the dashboard instruments?

      Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-valve-covers-jpg

      E. There are several lines attached to the fuel tank. On top, there appears to be a spout and a single line which runs down the driver's side. Below, there are two lines attached. Can anyone identify their functions?

      Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-tank-lines-jpg

      F. This car has been identified as an "Argentina Alfa Romeo." Note that the fuel tank matches the conical shape of the body. Is this the shape of the Monza tank? I have never seen the short-chassis fuel tank, only the road version. I would like to build a Monza fuel tank from brass...does anyone have an image of a Monza tank?

      Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-tank-jpg
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  1. David Cowin's Avatar Active Member
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    David
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    My thoughts:
    A: Position on intake manifold suggests offtake to gauge for manifold pressure
    B: Oil tank?
    C: Fuel pump?
    D: Almost certainly tachometer drives - standard feature on Alfa Tipo B
    E: Line from top of tank is overflow/vent
    F: I believe E shows Monza tank. It is the main part of the car's tail with only a small fairing added behind it.

    I look forward to seeing others' comments.

    David
    QUOTE QUOTE #2

  2. Ton's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ton
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    Hi Doug,

    I have THE 2300 books: the legendary 2300 by Simon Moore. I don't know if these books have some answers but it will take a couple of days to find out
    Regards

    Ton
    QUOTE QUOTE #3

  3. 3.Star's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Michael J.
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    Hello Doug,

    being not that familiar with the Alfa. But I think, that David is right with the tach drive and fuel tank vent. Got a picture, which shows just another version of Monza's engine compartment.For B my intentions are going to a gravity fed fuel tank, which was used to get the monza started. C Version shows an upgraded version with fuel pump, that allows to start the engine more comfortable.
    Guess it's a modification which took place much later.

    Cheers
    Michael
    Attached Images Attached Images Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!-alfa-romeo-8c-2300-monza_plumbing-jpg 
    QUOTE QUOTE #4

  4. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    egon
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    Contact Jay Leno he has one. (new version)
    QUOTE QUOTE #5

  5. RonOC's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ron
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    B is an Autovac fuel tank.

    I've always wondered where they found a vacuum source on a supercharged engine. Perhaps at the carburetor just before the supercharger.

    RR Phantom II has a seperate vacuum pump just for the Autovac.

    Ron
    QUOTE QUOTE #6

  6. RonOC's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ron
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    Addendum:

    As mentioned, D are tach drives. Some 8C2300's had two tachometers. One in the instrument panel, the second mounted on the steering shaft. Often called "a pie-plate tachometer" because of its size.

    E, if I understand what I've read, is the fuel tank. On the Monza the tank is the rear of the body. There is no body work covering it.

    Ron

    I suspect F is not an 8C2300. Exhaust is on the wrong side.
    QUOTE QUOTE #7

  7. Ton's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ton
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    Hi Doug,

    After 900+ pages:

    A. I have seen a lot of 1930 pictures of engines and the original brochure but almost all without this coil. I have seen one picture with this coil but that engine was modified ( magneto etc on other positions) So I think this is not an orginal part.

    B. Like Ron says it is the Autovac fuel pump system which was installed on cars up to chassis 2211077

    C. Another version of the Autovac...or a replica?



    D. Like Ron says: I have a picture from behind firewall where you see that the coiled lines assembled on the tachos

    E. ???? a lot of Monza's with different configurations

    F. From the book "Alfa Romeo Argentina" :





    I think this car is the car shown above
    Regards

    Ton
    QUOTE QUOTE #8

  8. Dougritt's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Douglas
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    Thanks for all the research and kind responses...I know the answers will help anyone building a Monza.

    Ton-
    I really appreciate the 900 pages! Since you own the Alfa "Bible," you may be the only person able to answer these additional questions:

    1. I am building the Alfa Muletto version. Would [I]that[/I] car have had the Autovac fuel pump installed?
    2. Are there any images /diagrams /sketches of the fuel tank on the Monza? I need a reference to scratch-build a brass tank.

    Please help!

    Doug


    Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!
    QUOTE QUOTE #9

  9. Ton's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ton
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    The "bible" is still next to the computer: but give me some time
    Regards

    Ton
    QUOTE QUOTE #10

  10. Ton's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ton
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    Could not get it out of my mind! Simon Moore is not sure which car was the "Muletto" but he thinks it is chassis 2111039. This is a lower number than the first Autovac chassis so I assume the "box" is not there.
    Now about the fuel tank: all the other types have the same type of tank but for the Monza it was hard to find pictures.
    Reading some explanations about the Monza the following theory struck my mind: the part
    behind the seats [U]is the fuel tank[/U]! Why?.... the fuel lines extend over the entire back and they are talking about an "extended fuel tank" for endurance racing and when you look at the picture it is longer than the normal size. Another clue is a damaged car where the aft part is crushed like a can. If it was a cover imo it would have been stayed behind on the road somewhere

    No hard proof Doug....only assumptions. But I can get you a scan of the drawings of the fuel tank of the other types.
    Regards

    Ton
    QUOTE QUOTE #11

  11. RonOC's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ron
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    Take a look on youtube:



    Title says Muletto, but its not. Interesting video & sound.

    Ron
    QUOTE QUOTE #12

  12. Ton's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ton
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    Hi Ron,

    Beautiful sound! The car in this configuration is imo an early Monza. In this configuration Nuvolari drove the GP's in 1931. The tank is the one I was referring to as the fuel tank in the other types.

    In the Simon Moore books the term "muletto" is never mentioned: it seems to be the nickname the German driver Rudolf Caracciola gave to the car. A car I was not able to find was the "Dinner Jacket" . It is a plain touring coupe without any special configuration
    Last edited by Ton; 09-29-11 at 01:10 PM.
    Regards

    Ton
    QUOTE QUOTE #13

  13. RonOC's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Ron
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    I 'm fairly sure the light blue Monza, registration LSJ236, is chassis 2211097. This would come after the switch from Autovac to electric fuel pump.

    However, since the Monzas were intended to be race cars, I wouldn't be surprised if the rules don't apply. Changes would have been made for each race.

    The Pocher kit is chassis 2211046, which, in theory, would have had the Autovac system. Today, and probably when Pocher examined it, it has an electric fuel pump.

    Googling "Alfa Romeo" and the chassis number turns up numerous photos. None for 2111039. One does have to be careful as I have seen instances where the car in the photos changes, but its still posted with the first chassis number.

    A quiz for extra points:

    If the first series 8C2300's had the "high" radiator and the second and third series had the "low" radiator, what radiator did the first series Monzas have? (I don't have the answer) The Pocher kit has the "low" radiator.

    Ain't we got fun?

    Ron
    QUOTE QUOTE #14

  14. Dougritt's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Douglas
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    Ton-

    You are my new best friend...
    Thanks for the great research. I would like a scan of the fuel tank diagram for the other 8C versions...I can use some of the details when I build in brass.

    Ron- you have some excellent descriptions...very helpful. Thanks!


    Doug


    Alfa Romeo 8C Monza-Parts Identification Help Needed!
    Last edited by Dougritt; 09-30-11 at 01:58 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #15

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