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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) Roger Zimmermann is offline
      Builder Last Online: Jun 2020 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/12 Rating:  (2 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 2
      Started: 07-26-19 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Scratch Built

      Before the Mark II was finished, I was thinking that I need some rest and maybe stopping modeling completely.
      After a few months "without", I noticed that I'm missing something. But, what to do? A new 10-years project is out of question, I need something less complex.
      After a while, it was clear that I had to do something with Cadillac. But what? The answer came rather quickly: a 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V-16 engine and frame, as a rolling frame.
      I have some contacts with people restoring the second version: 1932/33 which differs framewise from the first version 1930/31.
      I will have to do new things, like wire wheels! I searched in this forum for a tutorial, but found nothing. However , I do remember that somebody did recently (1 to 2 years) wire wheels. Can somebody tell me where to search?


      1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
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  1. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hello, the "American" systems of screw designations is "Screwy"

    The first number is screw size, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1, 0, 00 , 000, 0000, and the second number is the pitch count per inch. There are coarse and fine threads available in each size. and of course left hand threads if needed. Double threads, Acme threads, . . . Oh! I forgot the fractional threads, 1/4-20, 1/2-18, . . . It's a mess.

    Where I work we try our hardest to standardize our hardware on projects, METRIC, but some customers, some designers, and the occasional engineer still spec. "Imperial" or SAE hardware. (Society of Automotive Engineers)

    Feel sorry for the aircraft mechanic I knew from Pakistan, who had Soviet, French, American and English aircraft to service!
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #257

  2. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Feel sorry for the aircraft mechanic I knew from Pakistan, who had Soviet, French, American and English aircraft to service![/QUOTE]

    You have just reminded me that fitting equipment into "old" British aircraft (I think that the BAe 146 was the last) we had metric heads on BSF bolts, e.g a 3/8"BSF thread had a 10mm head, as all the new equipment to fit into the aircraft was metric.
    There is a particular UK radar in Chinese built MIG 21s that's pressurised. As usual, we fitted a standard Schrader valve for pressurisation (as fitted to aircraft tyres etc. world wide). It has a 3/8 BSF thread (pipe). Except that the Chinese are totally metric, so instead of tapping a 3/8BSF thread into the radar case we had to use M8. Schrader very kindly produced the first ever tyre valves with a metric thread. And you wonder why aircraft coffee pots are so expensive....
    QUOTE QUOTE #258

  3. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Don, I could read myself that the first number is the size. But what is the diameter? what means 2 or 000 and so on? which is the relation to the inch?
    The logic behind the metric system is that all dimensions are given in the same method, no matter if very small or huge. But you know that!
    You are citing aircraft, but it was the same in Europe when a mechanics had to deal with vehicles from England, from the continent and from the US. There were too few vehicles from the Soviet paradise to reach our countries; I assume they were using the metric system as the court during the tsars spoke French! Regarding this supposition, I may be wrong and it would not be the first time.


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #259

  4. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    No one is mentioning Bugatti? Mr. Bugatti made his own screws and bolts. 7mm and 9mm with some pitch of his own choosing. Square heads were the standard.

    Back to modeling, California is closed. Only "essential" businesses are open. Which include hardware stores. Which have Propane, and Mapp torches, and of course gases. -if, Roger, you are not able to refill your bottle, will that stop you from soldering, or do you have a plan "B"?
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 04-06-20 at 05:07 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #260

  5. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hello Roger, hope this helps.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-img_7271-2-jpg

    Your not going to like it. It is the product of Canada, the U.S. and the U.K. agreeing to standardize hardware after WWI. UNIFIED THREAD STANDARDS, The formula is: Screw # multiplied by 0.013" plus 0.060" will create the major diameter, -and, for "aught" (0) screws, the formula is Number of "0" after the FIRST '0", multiplied by 0.013" subtracted from 0.060" and that will give you the major diameter! "0" is considered the base unit, 0.060 -There is a long explanation in WIKIPEDIA, look under SCREW THREAD, which by the way, was the last place I looked after looking through four or five books, and an hour (on and off) online. -I have to get back to my shop.
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 04-16-20 at 09:20 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #261

  6. Nortley's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I owned a Velocette motorcycle for a while. With its age, chain of owners, and unknown history since leaving the factory it had every kind of fastener except Bugatti. They all worked.
    Scorpio - Builds models the way the prototype should have been built.
    QUOTE QUOTE #262

  7. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    It seems that they recognized that the metric system had plenty of logic, but they were not willing to do the same. Therefore, they imagine such a complex system! Anyway, thanks for the chart! I already saw it somewhere, but I'm too lazy to search. Fortunately for me, Don was willing to spend time for that.

    As I just have only a little gas left for silver soldering, I began something needed no heat: the links for the shackles. On two previous models I did, it was just a flat part with 2 holes. On the Mark II, it was more complex. On the Cadillac model, there are 12 links: 4 at the rear of the front spings and 8 for the rear springs. At the rear, the ones at the front of the springs are shorter than at the rear, just to simplify! Those links are casted parts with the usual 2 holes for the spring's shafts and 2 more for bolts clamping the shafts. Plus other details we will see when I'm doing them.
    I used one short and one long link as template to drill the other parts; next came the task to drill the holes for the clamping bolts. The bolts are just interfering the hole for the shafts; the latter have a recess to allow the bolt to be inserted. How to drill the holes with some precision relative to the holes for the shafts? The best way was to make a fixture to position the link during drilling. I took a scrap part and added a stop so I could do the 24 holes without too many difficulties.
    I'm adding a picture from the original part for better understanding.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-dsc01249-jpg1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-130-special-tool-jpg1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-131-shackle-links-jpg


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #263

  8. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The next step was to mill the recess to get a "slim link". Again, the "special tool" from the previous picture was modified to have a larger flat section to support the part in work. This tool allowed me the have rather identical large ends on both links types.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-132-milling-jpg

    With the mill I have, the recess was like a cliff, not inclined and without a curve at the top. This was done manually with a file. In the middle of this operation, I saw that one part is missing! I'm sure I had 12 pieces, the picture done a few days ago is attesting it! Finally, I had to do another piece; I spent less time to do it as I had for the unsuccessful search!

    The last operation was to mill the slit allowing the link to clamp the suspension shafts. It took a long time till I found the way to machine the slit; in fact, I used a tool which is done for large parts, but the set-up was good. Of course, my milling tool had a too small diameter to have the slit done in one operation; I had to turn the part 180° to machine the other side.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-133-milling-slit-jpg1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-135-links-ready-jpg

    The promised gas at April 8 is still not here. I will have to search to do parts without silver soldering...


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #264

  9. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The long expected gas came early this week, allowing to quit the planning and cut and silver some brass for the front support of the rear springs which is also a support for the body. This simple casting 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine is not so easy to do with flat brass and required lot of silver soldering. It would be presumptuous to say that this is a genuine reproduction of the original part as some difference are evident for me, compared to the many pictures I have.
    Both elements are soft soldered to the frame; the rivets will have to wait (anyway I don't have any at the moment) because the 3. crossmember is attached to the frame with the same rivets.
    Along with the model's pictures, I'm adding a picture from the real part.
    Now, I will do a body support, much easier!

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-136-attachment-jpg1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-137-attachment-jpg1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-avant-1-jpg


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #265

  10. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Devil in the Details
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #266

  11. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Absolutely and casting 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine parts are full of them! Can you imagine doing a similar part in 1:4 scale?


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    Last edited by Roger Zimmermann; 04-23-20 at 06:46 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #267

  12. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Piece of cake!










    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #268

  13. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hello Roger, I was just now looking through Markus' Mercedes build and noticed that he has used some small Copper Rivets on his chassis. -Maybe, if you havn't already chosen a path? -ask him?
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #269

  14. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The scale is not the same.


    Recently, I did the last bracket supporting the body at the rear and soldered both sides to the rails. The rivets will be added later; they are ordered now with other screws nut, and so on.
    Then, I did the support for the running board. If the vertical support was easy to shape, the horizontal part of it required a pattern to shape it. With a scrap material, the shape was done by filing the excess brass away. It took much more time to do the pattern than to shape both parts on it!
    The vertical and horizontal elements were assembled with soft soldering; smaller rivets have to be added. If you are looking well at the picture, you will notice that the lower part from the vertical element does not match exactly the shape of the horizontal one. Error from me or bad design? No! The similar parts on a V-8 frame are perfectly aligned but, as the frame from the V-16 is one inch deeper, the factory used the same vertical parts and had to do a different horizontal part to have the same distance between the floor and running board, creating that misalignment.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-138-brackets-jpg

    When I was in Germany to measure the frame, I knew I would miss important dimensions. The position to the running board support is one of them! The second cross-member is located near to the bracket, but I don't have his position either. I will have to wait until transmission and engine are done to locate the cross-member and brackets. By adding the length of the engine pan and transmission, I should get the real position from that cross-member, but something is not right: all engines are supported at the rear by two side supports; they are located by a hole at the frame; fortunately, I measure it. V-16 and V-8 have not the same support for whatever reason (probably the shape). However, all transmissions are the same. If I'm measuring the distance from that hole to the cross-member on the illustration from the V-8 frame in the shop manual , I have a considerable difference compared to my calculated position. I don't know why, I will maybe find it; the shape from the side supports and their location at the end of the engine could be the solution.


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #270

  15. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Some time ago, I wrote about rivets and my thinking that most cannot be real rivets, but only for show, mostly when the other side of the rivet was obstructed, like the upper and flanges from the frame.
    The problem was the same for the running board's brackets. The rivets for those parts are smaller (at least I have this impression) than the ones used on the frame. I tried with the proper quickly done tools to rivet by using a rod diameter 0.8mm (0.03") from a very soft brass. The main issue is to have the proper length which I had after one try. Therefore, the first 8 rivets from that model are done with a decent head in front like in the rear of the part. The head I got is a tad larger than the initial diameter which is what I expected.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-139-rivets-jpg


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #271

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