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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) Roger Zimmermann is offline
      Builder Last Online: Apr 2020 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/12 Rating:  (2 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 2
      Started: 07-26-19 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Scratch Built

      Before the Mark II was finished, I was thinking that I need some rest and maybe stopping modeling completely.
      After a few months "without", I noticed that I'm missing something. But, what to do? A new 10-years project is out of question, I need something less complex.
      After a while, it was clear that I had to do something with Cadillac. But what? The answer came rather quickly: a 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V-16 engine and frame, as a rolling frame.
      I have some contacts with people restoring the second version: 1932/33 which differs framewise from the first version 1930/31.
      I will have to do new things, like wire wheels! I searched in this forum for a tutorial, but found nothing. However , I do remember that somebody did recently (1 to 2 years) wire wheels. Can somebody tell me where to search?


      1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
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  1. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Roger
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    Usually I'm making the tools with a brass bar, convenient for 5 or 10 rivets. For the quantity I will have to do, a steel bar is mandatory!

    To Buck: do you have a picture from your arbor press? I have no idea how they look like and how large they are!


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #212

  2. Nortley's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    I don't have a photo of mine, tried to copy an image from the web but it didn't work. the press is basically a rack and pinion in a frame/base casting 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine . The rack moves vertically and the pinion has a handle. They come in a range of sizes rated by pressure, 1/2 ton to about 3 ton. My one ton press weighs maybe 10 kilos and is about 25 cm to the top of the frame. There are also little model size presses but they may not be substantial to the job. The rack and pinion arrangement gives very good pressure control from light to all you can pull on the handle. From my dictionary, Dornpresse.
    Last edited by Nortley; 03-24-20 at 11:49 AM.
    Scorpio - Builds models the way the prototype should have been built.
    QUOTE QUOTE #213

  3. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Thanks for the name in German! With it, I could see that many manufacturers are offering such presses; one in Switzerland can be had for about $ 100.00 (1 ton); its weight is 17 kg. I saw no 1/2 ton. Something to consider!

    As the template for the frame rail was ready, it was time to bend some brass on it!
    In fact, there were two options for the frame rails: trim a bit of brass the same shape as the drawing and silver or soft solder the upper and lower flanges or bend the flanges on that template. Each variant has its advantages and disadvantages. Silver soldering the flanges is creating a lot of distorsion; soft soldering the flanges is not very robust, but the rework is minimal.
    The bending solution is requiring more finishing work because, as the flanges are hammered, they elongate and the rails were looking like a banana. Plus the marks done on the flanges by the hammer. I choose a brass 0.5mm thick (0.02"), therefore the material is thick enough to allow some filing to get at the end 0.4mm.
    There are just 2 places I had to repair with silver soldering: at the rear, the lower flange has rather small radiuses and one had too much material (I had too cut a slice) and at the other curve, the brass sheared. I have to say that I expected more problems.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-119-frame-rails-jpg


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #214

  4. happyfreddy's Avatar Established Member
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    freddy
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    Some idea for rivet problem............
    Roger You know that in a electronic relais there are some copper rivets for the contact pills are used.
    Those rivets must be produced anywhere in different sizes

    On the other side you can buy hollow rivets used to make a electrical connection between two side PCB boards


    https://www.google.de/search?q=durch...ldxYwP7V2dDrGM


    such rivets ( of course ONLY hollow ones ) You can buy from BUNGARD elctronics
    or any electronic shop
    https://www.reichelt.de/diverses-loe...=BUNGARD&nbc=1
    Last edited by happyfreddy; 03-25-20 at 05:40 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #215

  5. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Nice resource, after all this is behind us. We will all have to restock our store rooms.

    Question Roger? Are there any Cadillac parts in your museum yet?
    QUOTE QUOTE #216

  6. happyfreddy's Avatar Established Member
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    Here another resource . I think that is what Roger is searching for .......

    https://www.themt.de/mt-1100-rvts-49.html

    I found it years ago when searching how to handle brass for carmodels

    The keyword is about thematik : modeling trains

    But maybe in right scale You can use the pins of needles.
    In this case You have to be carefully because of hard steel material.
    PROTECT YOUR EYES when cutting !!
    QUOTE QUOTE #217

  7. PROPELLER's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    QUOTE QUOTE #218

  8. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Thanks everybody for the time spent to help! Dan, you gave me once a good address: https://knupfer.info/shop/index.php/...schrauben.html This company (closed for the moment) is also selling rivets either in brass or copper. I will order there when the operations are resuming.

    Freddy: the heads from "my" rivets are rather large: about 1.4mm; with a shaft of 1 mm it will be good. The question is if I will be able to form a head the other side; those old cars have nothing which is hidden; rivets can be seen mostly from each angle. If the suspension brackets will cause no difficulties (I will rivet them before the frame is assembled), it's another matter when just two pieces are assembled, for example into the vertical "U" of the main rails. Due to the great number of rivets I will have to use, I will most probably develop a way to do them.

    Don: what do you mean with Cadillac parts in my museum (if I have one!)? 1:12 or 1:1 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine ? Up to now, I did not keep bad parts I did for that project, except the beginning of a knuckle for the front axle.


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #219

  9. happyfreddy's Avatar Established Member
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    Okay Roger , I thought they are smaller in size.
    But with about 1.4 mm rivets there perhaps exist some cup screws of M1 size.
    Respecting Your always perfect work I donīt believe that You will connect two parts
    with rivets. You will solder that ie the rivets only showelement.

    When only showelement perhaps think over to make them with plastic and glue them in.

    The shown copper hollow rivet perhaps useful for the bracket pads
    QUOTE QUOTE #220

  10. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    You are right, Freddy, they will be more for the look. But I need the heads on both sides! Effectively, all brackets, supports, cross members will be soft soldered. Anyway, the rivets will help that they don't get misaligned as soft solder is...soft.
    The hollow rivets are not an option to me.


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #221

  11. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Plastic is a good idea! Glueing in place with some material left in excess on both sides, then carefully shaping the ends? Soft sanding 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine pads. . . .or Sanding 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine sponges. Remembering that primer 1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine and paint will do much to obscure some subtle details
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 03-27-20 at 01:30 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #222

  12. happyfreddy's Avatar Established Member
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    freddy
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    Roger , when heads needed on both sides there is only one way to realize this :
    Easy way if You can get cup screws in M 1 size
    if not You have form via lathe the cups from normal M 1 screws by using a special formed
    tuning tool. Second part of rivet You must use a real screw M 1.
    The shaft of that length as needed and the slot in screw head just soft solder

    The special formed tuning tool for the lathe because only one direction with the support has to be done

    #model a model
    plastic only can be used if there is no later soldering to do
    Last edited by happyfreddy; 03-25-20 at 07:19 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #223

  13. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    That's a possibility, Freddy: the formed head with thread inserted from under the flange, the nut from above, soft soldering it to the threaded shaft and shaping the nut as a round head with a special tool. I have to think about that.


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #224

  14. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    As my pattern was not thick enough, I had to skip the specific flange's shape at the rear. I silver soldered bands of brass to have the correct shape.
    The main rails are not straight (seen from above) but has two bends, allowing the rear to be wider than the front. With that done, the main rails are done.

    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine-120-frame-detail-jpg


    1:12 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine
    QUOTE QUOTE #225

  15. gbritnell's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Hi Roger,
    I'm going through the same thing with my grader model. The machine has rivets all over it. I have been using escutcheon pins of different sizes for the rivets. For realism they should have a head on both side but I haven't come up with a way yet. The idea that held the most credence was to make rivet heads on the lathe and then super glue them to the opposite side of the rivet. Not really what I want but I haven't figured an alternative. My small rivets are .038 dia. shanks with .065 heads. I thought about making the heads and through drilling them. They would then be slipped over the shank of the pin and spot soldered in place. I have so many other parts to make I haven't experimented with that idea yet. I'll follow along to see what you come up with.
    gbritnell
    QUOTE QUOTE #226

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