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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) Roger Zimmermann is offline
      Builder Last Online: Jun 2019 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/12 Rating:  Thanks: 1
      Started: 02-25-19 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Scratch Built

      People here know that I was doing for a long time a Continental Mark II; most may not know that prior to that model, I have also a 1963 Studebaker Avanti and a 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado, both also at the scale 1:12.
      If the Avanti is a pure static model, the Toronado has an electric motor, centrifugal clutch and a 2-speed transmission plus reverse. Window, seat and headlamp doors are electrically operated, but that's far from reliable as you will discover the next few days.
      The goal was to finish the model, but, like every old thing you are dealing with, surprises arrise, usually to our dismay. It will be the same here.


      Now that the Mark II is ready, I have to really finish the Toronado. Why did I not finish it many years ago? Probably because I was very busy with my real cars; anyway, the fact is that the electrical system was not completed and the seat was no more functioning.

      In the seventies or eighties, a neighbors did for me a voltage reducer: the electrical motor for the traction is fed with 6V, but the motors for windows, seat and headlamps are fed with 2V. I had no idea if this device would still function, I never tried it.

      During the break in January, I did a case for four 1.5V batteries, (it could be that I did not completed the model because I had no 6V source) similar to the box I did for the Mark II.

      The first thing I did was to hook that voltage reducer and try if the windows would work. Nothing! However, the inside illumination was on, so I knew that the voltage reducer was active.

      As I had nothing to lose, I tried with the 3V box from the Mark II. The LH window came up, but with a high pitch noise! The RH window came up and down without noise, but very slowly. The quarter windows were OK too, but much slower than I had in memory. The seat would not move and the headlamps would not come up.

      The first work was to open the LH door and remove the motor.



      In retrospect, I did a very good job as everything is attached with screws. Once the motor was out, I separated the motor from the reduction gear and let it run with 1.5V. I had then the confirmation that the vibration came from the motor and not from the reduction!



      I put some oil at the output shaft, without difference. The back is closed; I tried anyway to put a drop of oil on it. I assume that the capillarity from the construction let some oil come at the right place as with the time, the motor went to a quiet mode.



      It’s now back in place, without noise. With 1.5V, it barely goes up and down when connecting the battery directly to the motor. Therefore, I tried again with 3V; it goes somewhat quicker, but you can almost get asleep in between. That’s a design flaw: to improve the situation, I should use the same motors as the ones from the Mark II; this would require heavy modifications at the doors because the transmission (or reduction gear) is square.

      To understand what was happening and continue the electrical work, I had to remove the rear seat. I discovered the electrical mess under it; if I have the schematic of the system, I don’t have identified the wires with the proper color, so I’m lost. There will be some detective work to find out.



      As some elements covered with leather were out, I cleaned them with a leather product. Despite the age (about 40 years old), they are in good shape; I must add that the mileage is maybe 10 yards!




      Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
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  1. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Roger!

    What a memory test!

    I have to go to work, so I've skipped through your recent posts, but I will definitely read through them completely today!

    I hope this is not too annoying, but I am curious about your techniques. Were you making patterns and molds and laying up fiber-glass into those molds, or were you creating shells directly onto a sacrificial pattern? Wax or foam?

    Can you relate what is fiber-glass, cast resin Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 , plastic, metal? (I apologize for so many questions, but your work is truly inspiring!)

    -Don

    PS- Oh yeah! Thank you for all that you have shown and shared!!
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #17

  2. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Roger
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    You are welcome to ask, it's just a matter if I have the answer!
    Like for the Avanti, I did first a form with plaster, as good as I could, because the plaster is a difficult material, too brittle. Of course, I did not buy plaster for modelling, but for construction! Unfortunately, I have no picture with the plaster for the Toronado, but I have small b/w pictures for the Avanti. You will see them when I'm doing the story about this model.
    When the shape was OK, I did negative molds with fiberglass and polyester, of course in several pieces. Then I cleaned the molds and did the positive pieces. I used fiberglass matt and polyester resin Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 mixed with an activator and hardener; about the same products used to build boats or swimming pools. I'm not sure if it's the answer to your last question. Remember: with me you cannot use shortcut in English!


    Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
    QUOTE QUOTE #18

  3. markus68's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    Markus
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    I will not stop scale modelling because it is my passion. Gerald Wingrove's cars are really great but they are not better than your cars. Markus
    QUOTE QUOTE #19

  4. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by markus68 View Post
    I will not stop scale modelling because it is my passion.
    That's positive thinking, Markus!

    If you don’t find what you are looking for, ask the wife! And, indeed, Christine came with a string her mother had since ages. I did a resistance test by rubbing about 100 times the string over a sharp piece. Its looks not very nice now, but I still cannot break it! The sting I used before was submitted to the same test: after 10 times, I had 2 pieces.
    A string with Kevlar may be stronger, but what I will be using now is good enough.




    Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
    QUOTE QUOTE #20

  5. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Roger, you might check craft suppliers, a very popular hobby in the states is “Beading”. - stringing beads to make necklaces and such. Pearls and other Jens are also strung together, I’ assuming that resilient cords of “Super” strength now exist.
    QUOTE QUOTE #21

  6. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The problem Don is that I must be sure that the string can roll over a wheel diameter 2.5mm and that the string diameter is no more than 0.5mm. When you begin to ask such questions, the answer will never come because those people have just no idea.
    What I have now must be nylon or something like that because it does not burn but melt. What I used was burning.


    Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
    QUOTE QUOTE #22

  7. sobako's Avatar Member
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    Evgeniy
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    Roger, you can wrap the body surface with food film to avoid accidental unnecessary scratches. The food film adheres to the surface, which means that it will not scratch the paint either.
    QUOTE QUOTE #23

  8. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Good idea, thanks! I will use that when I will go to replace the string at the quarter window. Probably using it on the doors is not stupid either!


    Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
    QUOTE QUOTE #24

  9. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The “new” string was installed. It’s more difficult to close the loop because the material is slipping more than cotton. After some up and downs, it seems that this is OK. I’ll let it that way for the moment; I will check if the tension is getting less and less, but I don’t think so.
    In between, I removed the chromes parts to both front fender and I removed as good as I could the orange peel Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 , something I did not when the model was ready. The almost 30 years old paint is still good and the shine is nice. Not as deep as the Mark II paint, but quite acceptable. Especially for Don, I wanted to show the smooth surface with those pictures; I did maybe 12 or 15 and kept only those 2.






    Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
    QUOTE QUOTE #25

  10. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hello Roger,

    So? these fenders are fiber-glass, approximately 1.6 - 2 mm thick, and you are surfacing both inside where seen, and of course the outside?

    They do look beautiful!

    Thank you for sharing.

    Your patterns for these fenders were they made of plaster? or wood?

    -Don

    PS- Have you ever worked with clay? Specifically they type used in developing automobile bodies?
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 02-28-19 at 10:42 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #26

  11. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    To your questions, Don:
    They are indeed about 1.5mm thick. Not much rework inside, just sprayed some primer Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 and color coat. Of course, the outside got more attention!
    The negative patterns were made with fiberglass. However, I remember that the shape was not very good because the positive pattern was plaster. Therefore, they were heavily reworked, like the other parts from the body.
    Clay? I know it was used in the design departments, but I had no idea where to buy it. When I began the Toronado, I was 21, I studied at that time and the money was very tight. There was no Internet and I had no telephone.


    Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12
    QUOTE QUOTE #27

  12. happyfreddy's Avatar Active Member
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    freddy
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    I think clay is special for car design studies the basic equipment to realize any ideas
    https://shop.kolb-technology.com/startseite/

    her some practical use in industrie of clay

    https://www.bmw-m.com/de/topics/maga...um-modell.html

    Roger, besides Your excellent descriptions in Toronado and Mark II thread about forming the body, did You ever
    tried make it by pressing brass/copper chassis sheets with positiv and negative forms like done with the wheel cover ?
    I think about a method to realize it when making a positive form with metal or oak wood and the negative form
    with resin Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 . If the resin Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 form will resist any pressure with a simple hydraulic press ( for car lifting to change the wheels)
    I think this may be another way to get body parts of a model instead of hammering as You did.
    QUOTE QUOTE #28

  13. happyfreddy's Avatar Active Member
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    freddy
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    I think clay is special for car design studies the basic equipment to realize any ideas
    https://shop.kolb-technology.com/startseite/

    her some practical use in industrie of clay

    https://www.bmw-m.com/de/topics/maga...um-modell.html

    Roger, besides Your excellent descriptions in Toronado and Mark II thread about forming the body, did You ever
    tried make it by pressing brass/copper chassis sheets with positiv and negative forms like done with the wheel cover ?
    I think about a method to realize it when making a positive form with metal or oak wood and the negative form
    with resin Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 . If the resin Finishing my 66 Olds Toronado, scale 1:12 form will resist any pressure with a simple hydraulic press ( for car lifting to change the wheels)
    I think this may be another way to get body parts of a model instead of hammering as You did.
    QUOTE QUOTE #29

  14. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Excellent links Freddy,

    -That is how a clay is finished, but they are not showing the machining. Basically a plywood buck is made, covered with open cell foam,(Styro-foam) milled below the final surface, 20 to ? mm, and that off-set is over packed with clay. the whole model goes into a 5 axis mill, and is milled to the final A surface.

    Clay modelers finish the surface, balance out right and left, and work at the direction of the designer(s)
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #30

  15. happyfreddy's Avatar Active Member
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    freddy
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    Oh I see I have made a double posting
    Admin please delete the second one , thx

    I also think that the first basics of a clay model will be any kind of material like wood blocks or styropor

    Even when in this case the BMW prototype is rolling on wheels it must be a good base construction











    I think today most of ideas will be realized using computers and CNC



    even in first small models
    QUOTE QUOTE #31

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