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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) MODEL A MODEL is offline
      Builder Last Online: Oct 2017 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/4 Rating:  Thanks: 1
      Started: 08-13-17 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Attribution Scratch Built

      It is not my intent to start this "New" project right away,(I have as of yet to put two Model A parts together) but in collecting references I noticed a detail I thought I should share.

      I do not know if this is unique or if it is a feature common to all the 8C engine blocks? -The hollow access on the underside of the motor mounts that extend to the chassis rails?


      ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
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  1. David Cowin's Avatar Active Member
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    David
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    I've been checking through various 8C 2300 drawings and have been unable to find one that will confirm the dimensions. The drawing I'm posting here (taken, I believe, many years ago from Peter Hull's book Alfa Romeo) allows you to compare the distance between the crankshaft centreline and the chassis rail with the diameter of the flange of the clutch bell-housing. This can then be compared with the flange diameter on the cross-section of the engine. Not precise but a useful check.ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-alfa-romeo-8c-2300-jpg
    QUOTE QUOTE #32

  2. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Hello David!

    Yes! Thank you! This is very useful! And isn't it surprising that we can't find dimensions on these drawings? -So I will be able to get everything in proportion but I will not know the scale?

    The Angela Cherrett book, has the two cross sections through the engine but no dimensions, and it also offers up the chassis, a very nice set of drawings, but the dimension are illegible! That same book does have all the usual dimensions listed, so scaling those drawings, and trusting your section, and the one previous, I can probably determine the engines' relative sizes. And I think that for now, that this will have to be good enough!

    One could contact the Centro Documentazione Alfa Romeo, and maybe I'll try that, after I've drawn up "my" plans. -I'm thinking that someday I'll have these drawings and THEN, I'll attach the correct dimensions to them, with the note that these drawings are not to scale. (unless they are)

    As an aside many years ago I went through this very same process to draw up the Bugatti type 53 chassis, and one month after I had satisfied myself that I had got it as good as I could, I found a drawing of the chassis printed in a Bugantics magazine from the 60's! all the dimensions, and to my delight my drawings were pretty darn good! They were off in only one area, under the fuel tank! -I was very pleased and anguished!!!

    Thank you again! -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #33

  3. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    One of the subsidiaries of Jim Stokes Workshops in the UK makes replacement engines - If you ask them nicely they may give a dimension or two. See http://www.triplembyjswl.com/stock-p...block_38.shtml
    QUOTE QUOTE #34

  4. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Hmmm? Can I be nice? I was born in Texas, Dallas Texas, so I know I'm charming, but can I be nice?

    First I should draw up everything as best I can and then I'll approach people. Me and people are not always a good mix. -a friend of a friend knows Mr. Leno, so maybe I could ask him? And of course the Alfa museum? And maybe the Alfa Owner's Club?

    We'll see. Thank you for the new lead, -I do enjoy research! I really do!

    We'll see.

    Thank you again!!

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #35

  5. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    I can't answer for Dallas. I've only been to Hoosten! Pervading memories were of a storm that was washing our rental across the road, and green thunderclouds over the Methane plant. - Oh - and the rental was a Lincoln town car? It had the most hideous red velour diamond buttoned upholstery. I could only drive it if all the seats were occupied to hide it... I also remember the front hood emblem because I could only see a yard in front of it.
    QUOTE QUOTE #36

  6. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Shucks! That's nutten, on the day I was born, in Dallas, there was a tornado, in Dallas. -I've been bitten or stung by almost everything in the state.
    Many summers with a hundred days over a hundred degrees! Hail the size of ping-pong balls! Hurricanes, tornados, dust-devils, grass fires larger than some countries! Flash ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE floods, lightning storms that would develop in minutes changing a clear blue sky to black.(and rain side-ways!) Rattlesnake roundups,
    -heck! I was seven years old before I realized that those speed bumps were armadillos! . . .


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #37

  7. David Cowin's Avatar Active Member
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    David
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    On further reflection, if you zoom in on the the attached photo of a period blueprint shows the outline of the lower part of the engine in sufficient detail to allow the length of the bare engine block to be estimated from the known wheelbase of 3100mm.
    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-alfa-romeo-8c-2300-chassis-jpg

    As another person suggested JWSL has detailed CAD/CAM drawings of the 8C 2300 engine for remanufacturing purposes and may be willing to provide a few key measurements. Autorestorations.co.nz builds 8C 2300 replica cars, probably using JWSL engines and may be willing to help.
    Otherwise measuring an actual engine may be possible: I know the owner of a Monza and encounter him from time to time but opportunities are only occasional.
    QUOTE QUOTE #38

  8. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Hello David!

    THANK YOU!!!!

    This is EXCELLENT!!! Its legible!

    No need to bother anybody.

    This is exactly why this forum was created! (I assume) -Modelers helping each other.

    I owe you one!

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #39

  9. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Oh Yeah? I almost forgot!

    Where did you find this?

    Thanks again!!

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #40

  10. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    It seems such documents are easier to find for older cars than for the ones I'm doing...Good luck Don with your project!
    QUOTE QUOTE #41

  11. David Cowin's Avatar Active Member
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    David
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    Don,

    I'm pleased the blueprint gives you what you need. I believe it was published in The Automobile magazine a year or so ago.

    David
    QUOTE QUOTE #42

  12. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    Jo!

    I did check into www.triplembyjswl.com and what a nice place that would be to work at!!
    -in their list of components to sell was a beautiful picture of a gasket set! I love gasket sets! They are the rossetta stone of model engine research!!

    They allow for correct proportional foot-prints of all the major engine components! I'd still like to have dimensions?! But this moves me along a little further, and I did try to beg a favor, but I hate doing so before I have anything to show for credibility. We'll see.

    At autorestorations.co.nz, I found renewed interest in a Delage 15-8 grand prix car! Only kitted by Auto-Kit in 1/24th scale and missed by all the other manufacturers? Why? Its a beautiful car, gorgeous engine! fantastic race history, and terribly sad story for its founder!!!

    Thank you Jo! and thank you David!

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #43

  13. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    don
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    When trying to figure out the dimensions to an engine, gasket sets are a very good way to approximate. -This assumes that they are pictured in the whole side by side, and not edited to fit a page. (Its too easy to just lay them down and photograph them) -SO? So this again helps me toward a model of a model, with everything being in proportion. (But no dimensions yet!!)( Yes! I could buy a set, and I've done that on cheaper sets, but I'm afraid to even ask how much? for these!)

    I have one good cross section L - R, and another from bow to stern, I have the transmission in longitudinal section, and a front as well as a rear view of the engine. I have a used engine to compare to, (Pocher), and I have lots of photo-references. Now, with the gaskets to confirm the foot-prints of all the major components. I'm set to start some working drawings, dimensions to be added as/when they become available. And my day job allowing, I can start on some patterns, some I intend to sand ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE cast, but the crank-case will be assembled, first, and maybe I'll make a mold to create waxes, which I'll either send out or maybe cast myself.

    The scale? Will be one/fourth-ish!

    -Don




    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #44

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