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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) MODEL A MODEL is offline
      Builder Last Online: Dec 2018 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/4 Rating:  Thanks: 1
      Started: 08-14-17 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Attribution Scratch Built

      It is not my intent to start this "New" project right away,(I have as of yet to put two Model A parts together) but in collecting references I noticed a detail I thought I should share.

      I do not know if this is unique or if it is a feature common to all the 8C engine blocks? -The hollow access on the underside of the motor mounts that extend to the chassis rails?


      ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
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  1. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Hello Down Under, from Up Here,

    It seems logical that the front axle would move rewards, however that front cross member does not move, so, that does set the limits on how far the axle could be pushed.

    Also, take a look at the pictures I posted of the Corto versus Monza front ends, and notice the dampers in relation to the front attachment points of the springs. It does appear that the springs were bobbed at the front, maybe some adjustment to the lengths of the leaves, (I'm guessing), and that's it? -if the rear attachment point got moved? (I don't think so?), that would impact the trailing arm attachment point. - however, again, that is a bolted on assembly and could be relocated, (maybe easier on 1:1 ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE , than 1:8!)



    Hi Jo, I found this picture a few minutes after I had made this post, I'm still trying to interpret it. Does the axle look moved?



    Notice the square ends to the spring leaves, or the rounded point.



    PS: Shortening the springs at both ends would keep the axle in the "sweet" spot? Increase stiffness, and of course maintain the same wheelbase as the Corto chassis. (it would also mean that making a proper Corto chassis would require longer springs, for certain.)

    Assuming that the damper arms are a constant, and that they're location on the axle must be kept plum to the point where it attaches on the chassis, shortening the springs at both ends seems like the only solution?

    I can't find the passage that lead me to say that the axle was moved, I must have been delusional! -Sorry!

    PS: I did find where I read about the axle moving, it's in the new MONZA book by Walsh. But it does not say by how much, and it is written in such a way as to suggest that it was an assumption? I believe that if the springs were made shorter at both ends, then the axle would continue to track up and down as needed, and the shortened length would increase the stiffness while braking, which is why the chassis rails were being shortened in the first place.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 07-18-18 at 05:32 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #92

  2. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    -the wheelbases become an issue for me because, when I have a drawing with no dimensions given, I use the wheelbase as my go to datum to enlarge or reduce a drawing. I find that to be the quickest way to obtain the relative sizes of a project.

    You would think that with all the time that's gone by since these kits were first produced, and all the time that people are investing in assembling them, and the price of the kits, and the active after-market stuff, that there would have been created a common base of knowledge about all this.

    Pocher kits do test you.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #93

  3. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Another image from the Argentine firm of PURSANG, notice the "Fin" being attached to the fuel tank side. Is this just at PURSANG? I have seen evidence that these "Fins" are extensions of a "second-skin" a wrap over of the existing fuel tank with a second layer? -projecting downward to a pleasing curve.

    Perhaps two different approaches, one by Mr. Stokes and his team, and the other by the people of PURSANG?

    AND, there are photographs that show no "Fins" with a rather straight line, rolled under of course, of the lower edge of the fuel tank.

    -I'm going to send off a line to the folks at Stokes, and ask. No harm in asking?



    This second image was found online, -I know that it has been posted before, by someone on this forum, but I have not been able to identify whom? I apologize, no slight intended. -it is an excellent capture of the lower sides of the 8C 2300 fuel tank.




    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 07-22-18 at 04:28 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #94

  4. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Added to those builders of Pocher kits, what about the experience of those building new Alfa 2300s ((Replicas). Between Pur Sang, Jim Stokes and a few other replica builders you would hope that this had been sorted and the information now generally available.
    Regarding a constant to work from in the photos, I would make the assumption that the damper mounting to the axle is the same whatever chassis is used. The top damper mounting is vertically above lower one. However, this mounts to a bolted bracket that also provides a front wing mounting. This bracket is capable of being moved...
    So if we can determine that the top damper mount is in the same place on the Monza and the Corto chassis, then it follows that the axle is in the same place...

    Jo
    QUOTE QUOTE #95

  5. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hi Jo!

    I've sent off an email to both the Alfa Romeo museum, and the Stokes workshop. Asking about the origin and function of these details? I included the best pictures I have. -and if they are so inclined to answer it will only take a little of someone's time, and the effort to email back.

    I agree with your assessment. -I think the axle stays put, and the springs were made shorter at both ends. -Now if someone wants to do a proper Touring Spyder, won't they have to make the longer dumb irons, and the springs that are lengthened at both ends?

    I'll let you know if I hear back from anybody.

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #96

  6. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MODEL A MODEL View Post
    Hi Jo!

    -Now if someone wants to do a proper Touring Spyder, won't they have to make the longer dumb irons, and the springs that are lengthened at both ends?
    -Don
    That is a future project, making the 1933 Mille Miglia winner, which is a Touring Spyder. The kit is ready and waiting...
    QUOTE QUOTE #97

  7. David Cowin's Avatar Active Member
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Today while sorting through photo files I found the following drawing of an Alfa 8C 2900 engine with almost decipherable dimensions.ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-_58-1-jpg

    David
    QUOTE QUOTE #98

  8. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hello David!

    Well this is a pleasant surprise! It is the 2900 and not the 2300. I have tried to zoom in but the pixels are too large to discern the numbers. Do you have a copy that can be read? It would be interesting to compare.

    I am not up on the differences between the P3's engine and that of the road cars. Was it the same engine? -made tamer for the road? -and is this of the P3 engine?

    As an aside, the P3 cars are another example of an important and beautiful car that the model manufacturers have missed. Why? (The Casadio / Revival kit is poor.)

    I did just pick up the WinCol. folios on the P3, and I will add this to my new to do list.

    Thank you for sharing!

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #99

  9. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The most obvious differences on the P3 engine are the reversal of the head flow - the exhaust is on the right, and the double supercharger is mounted on the left hand side of the engine. I think there may also be casting ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE differences on the rear face of the block to take the central steering box.
    QUOTE QUOTE #100

  10. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Here are some pictures of the 2900 motor...

    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-img_0748-jpg

    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-img_0740-jpg

    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-img_0747-jpg

    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-img_0749-jpg

    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-img_0753-jpg

    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE-img_0754-jpg

    Note how the rear supports on the block seem to match the drawing above.
    QUOTE QUOTE #101

  11. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hi Jo!, Hi David!

    Isn't this a car that should get a modelers attention? The engine is not as beautiful as the 2300, but it is just as interesting! Where the 2300 crankcase is this big monumental block down to the dry sump flange, the 2900 splits horizontally along the midline. On the 2300 engine the left and right supports, there are those pass-throughs, the 2900 has twice as many!

    That central steering box mount is interesting, - I doubt if there is much if anything shared with its predecessor, maybe the valve covers? (but why?)

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #102

  12. David Cowin's Avatar Active Member
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    From the other drawings in this group on my PC the 8C 2900 engine drawing is for the 2900B and 2900C sports-racing cars rather than the 2900 Tipo B engine which as others have pointed out has a similar architecture but different construction.

    David
    QUOTE QUOTE #103

  13. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    A pleasant surprise from the nice people at Auto Restorations, New Zealand.

    A pretty straight forward, or down, look at a Modern Spyder chassis. all sizes are relative.



    -and some individual components . . .



    For anyone wishing to detail out a Spider (Spyder), they have quite a few very useful images on they're site.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 10-09-18 at 04:05 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
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    QUOTE QUOTE #104

  14. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    I have an obsession with radiators! Weird, I know, but there are so many ways to construct them, and they quickly became a signature of various marques.

    To this day, those old shapes are maintained as part of current styling, though the radiators themselves have been standardized.

    -Anyway, back to Alfa Romeo Monza's. Another image found on the Auto Restoration, New Zealand, web-site.



    I hope someone besides myself will find this useful.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #105

  15. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    A few more captures of the Monza radiator-








    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #106

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