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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) MODEL A MODEL is offline
      Builder Last Online: Dec 2018 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/4 Rating:  Thanks: 1
      Started: 08-14-17 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Attribution Scratch Built

      It is not my intent to start this "New" project right away,(I have as of yet to put two Model A parts together) but in collecting references I noticed a detail I thought I should share.

      I do not know if this is unique or if it is a feature common to all the 8C engine blocks? -The hollow access on the underside of the motor mounts that extend to the chassis rails?


      ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
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  1. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Re-examining this illustration, I finally noticed the bracket on the lower left that supports the carb./super-charger assembly. There is a matching foot-print on the crank-case wall at this point.

    (Another detail missed by the folks at Pocher.)

    PS: After having seen this area, (the space between the carb. and the crank-case wall) on three different engines.(small sample, I know) I have seen no use of the above pictured bracket. On all of the engines, have the footprint on the crank-case wall, no doubt part of the pattern, indicating that someone thought it would be necessary, and on one of the engines, studs are visible, protruding from the wall, but no bracket. -my hasty conclusion, is that the bracket is difficult to get to, and may have been determined not critical. -after-all the attachment to the super-charger is significant.

    This is of course the opinion of a modeler.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 06-15-18 at 12:08 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #77

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    I don't know what to think, are these "fins" merely aesthetic? And are they the product of Pur Sang? or was Sr. Jano way ahead of everyone by trying to direct the flow of air under the rear of the car?



    -the above and following pictures are of a Pur Sang replica Monza, for sale.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 06-30-18 at 11:53 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #78

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    - another picture of the clutch cooling scoop, the "CCS".






    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #79

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Perhaps the "FINS" are an aesthetic consideration after all? The two following pictures, (I believe) IS, the 2300 in the Simeone Museum, and are the only pictures that I could find without the down-ward extension, to the sides of the fuel tank.




    Surprising how not attractive this "fin-less" arrangement is.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 06-10-18 at 11:01 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #80

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Constantly pouring over all the images and video of the 8C 2300 engine, I found a better angle on the throttle "pass-through", and some pictures of the carb. with finally one clear capture of the manufacturer's logo.





    Before there was an Eduardo Webber, and before Austin Powers, there was Giacomo Memini!

    PS: Looking at the middle picture, the carb. bracket would have attached to the carb. body at that space between the super-charger body and carb. Pretty tight space, and together with reaching around everything to get to the bracket base, and unscrewing the securing nuts from those studs, and now swinging the whole assembly out and forward? Maybe, the mechanics deemed the bracket a needless exercise?


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 06-15-18 at 12:21 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #81

  6. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    I am still making very slow progress with my patterns. The size of the crank-case is large enough that I do not think that I will be able to pour it in aluminum, as a sand ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE casting ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE , as I had originally hoped. But will instead try pewter in a high temp RTV ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE ? -we'll see? -I'm still a few weeks from that. Sump, valve covers, and front engine mount will be sand ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE cast aluminum.


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #82

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    On TRIPLE-M's web-site they have created a few animations, one of the super-charger, and a very thorough one of the carburetor, rotating 360' while disassembling.

    -for anyone trying to improve on their Pocher carb., this animation is as useful as anything could be.




    www.triplembyjswl.com

    Click on their facebook link.

    http://www.facebook.com/triplembyjsw...26569944117042


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 06-21-18 at 12:40 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #83

  8. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -more input on the fuel tank fin or no fin issue.






    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #84

  9. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Notice the two edges at the rear of the fuel tank.





    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #85

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    I have read somewhere of the differences between the various Alfa Romeo kits offered by Pocher, and they DO offer both versions of chassis (don't they?), but of course you do need to recognize the differences.

    The Monza chassis were shortened 120mm and the front springs were likewise shortened by 4 inches. The Monza wheelbase became 2650mm.

    front axle was of course moved rearwards?












    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 07-14-18 at 01:53 PM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #86

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Forever searching for, or confirming images/design details. Sometimes forgetting to check the resources available here, on our forum.

    These following images were posted by Marco71, a while ago. Does anyone know the source/book for these images?








    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #87

  12. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MODEL A MODEL View Post
    I have read somewhere of the differences between the various Alfa Romeo kits offered by Pocher, and they DO offer both versions of chassis (don't they?), but of course you do need to recognize the differences.

    The Monza chassis were shortened 120mm and the front springs were likewise shortened by 4 inches. The Monza wheelbase became 2650mm.

    front axle was of course moved rearwards.
    I checked, and the chassis legs are the same in all five kits (same part no. but in three colours - red, white and black). They are all Monza style. Perhaps this is why the touring body looks wrong, and also why the the engine and radiator is/isn't out of position by 10mm?

    Are you sure the front axle moved back? I thought that the difference in length was taken up by the axle being offset front/rear on the (shorter) springs.
    All of the Pocher Alfas have the short (Monza) chassis, as opposed to the "Corto" or the "Lunga" 4 seater chassis.

    So there two different lengths for a short chassis Alfa. Monza body and Touring/Coachbuilders body.
    Last edited by Jo NZ; 07-13-18 at 02:12 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #88

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Hi Jo!

    I have been trying to remember what and when I read about the chassis lengths and what was correct and what wasn't? -It actually goes back to my hobby shop days, and trying to recall conversations with modelers whose opinions I trusted. -however, at the time I was more interested in the boss's daughter, so . . .

    The source for my information is that new book by Mike Walsh, Alfa Romeo Monza, definite on the chassis being shortened at the dumb-irons. I agree on the Touring front ends not being right. (you have 5 kits????) -the conversation I remember was that Pocher had NOT made the two frames, long and short, and had made the situation worse by making the MONZA chassis. -SO- anyone wanting to make the four-seaters has to add length to the chassis, I'm guessing in the straight section, AND, they will need to create the longer, more graceful dumb-irons. AND, someone wanting to do the Touring Spider correctly, will only have to do the work at the dumb-irons, but both will need to create longer springs at the front end.

    Whew!

    (FIVE KITS?)

    I assume you have looked at the photos I posted of the two front ends. And, actually I do bow to your superior knowledge. -I'm just trying to rectify "this is right, this is wrong, and this is questionable" about these kits. I guess there should have been two different chassis made, but Pocher did not.

    I have been pouring through all sorts of builds posted by people who seem ok with steering boxes floating at the end of the steering shaft, and also radiators, that should be at an angle on the Touring spider, but are using the perpendicular Monza radiator. -and the front engine mount not meeting the cross brace?

    The second picture I posted of the crankcase block pattern, that I have been stumbling with, shows a feature of the front end of the crankcase, behind the front engine mount. This feature is not present in the Pocher kit, and may explain why some modelers have left the front of their motors un-attached?



    (Five kits, or just five chassis?)

    We are all liable to jump to assumptions, I had assumed that the flange on the crankcase matches up with the flange on the sump. It does not, it over hangs it by a healthy margin. In the above picture you can see the flange for the sump, the flange for the crankcase over-hangs it by almost double.

    The recessed areas on the crank-case walls are only present on the front quarters, they are subtle but they do exist.. -Once trust is lost, between people or between a manufacturer and their customers, you question everything!

    I have to find that statement about the axles! -since the shortening of the chassis was to improve stiffness, it is logical that the springs were shortened, but it does not follow that the axles would move?

    Let me know what you think. I willingly bow to the modeler from down under.

    -Don


    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 07-15-18 at 12:58 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #89

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    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Jo,

    -if you shorten the dumb-iron, and shorten the springs, and if you want the axle to remain centered in the spring? doesn't the axle have to move backwards as well?


    For any one sitting in the wings, this will not affect your build if you are working on a MONZA. -but the Touring spider? (probably has the wrong, less graceful dumb-irons, and if the springs are the same between each kit? -the front springs are too short as well.

    oh! your radiator might need to develop a graceful lean rewards?




    ALFA ROMEO 8C 2300 ENGINE MODEL - 1/4th SCALE
    Last edited by MODEL A MODEL; 07-13-18 at 03:38 AM.
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
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    QUOTE QUOTE #90

  15. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The modeller from down under is as confused as you are...

    But first - five different kits
    K71 - Monza
    K73 - Spyder
    K78 - Muletto
    K81 -Mille Miglia
    K89 - Coupe Elegant

    As for the front spring - I understood that the axle is not centred on the front spring on the Monza, and that the wheelbase on the Monza and the Spyder are the same, with different dumb iron lengths. Happy to be corrected....

    On the front crankcase support - Pocher model the attachment to the radiator cross member as a buttressed horizontal extension to the front crank bearing cover. Is it actually part of the crankcase?
    QUOTE QUOTE #91

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