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    1. Kit: , by (Yearly Subscriber) koehlerkment is offline
      Builder Last Online: Mar 2017 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  Thanks: 0
      Started: 02-10-17 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Attribution Scratch Built Build in Progress

      Long time ago, in the late 1970s I bought the Pocher Fiat F2. I remember how disappointed I was about the quality. I resolved to improve the model, but soon found out that that was an impossible undertaking. In the eraly eigties I travelled to Turin, which is a convenient 600 kms from my place. I was allowed by a kind museum warden to take pictures of the original Fiat F2 in the Museum Carlo Biscaretti di Ruffia (you find these pictures in the SMC Gallery).

      But I never got round to actually building the car, three kids, wife, job demanded most of my time. Five years ago I finally retired and turned to modelling again.

      I started with the engine. In 1984 I was on a trip to the UK and visited Beaulieu Museum. The librarian supplied two photocopies of the 1905 100hp engine, which is almost identical with the 1907 130 hp (see Gallery).

      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-bild0001-jpg

      As you can see, polystyrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp sheet is the material I deemed easiest to work.

      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-bild0002-kopie-jpg

      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-bild0005-jpg

      From the start I intended to install an electric motor and make all parts movable. A resolution that caused multiple problems but they were worth the result. It turned out that one motor alone was not realy suitable. so I decide to use two gear head motors, each with a maximum 500 rpm at six volts.
      One turns the crankshaft cog wheel, the other the flywheel. The cog wheel is module .3.

      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-bild0009-jpg

      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-bild0011-jpg

      The two cog wheels on the camshaft nearly drove me crazy. Hours and hours at the mill, several wheels ruined before I was successful. The smallerwheel drives the magneto. It sits on a protruding axle stub of the bigger wheel, around which it can turn. The first cam can be seen on the shaft. It is fixed by a stud screw. Just behind the camshaft wheel there is a grooved ring that slides lengthwise on the shaft. Two bars soldered into the shaft that engage into correspoding grooves in the ring ensure that it can't rotate on the shaft. Through two diagonal slits it turns the smaller cogwheel a few degrees when moved forward or backward. This was the advance/retard mechanism of the magneto.

      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-bild0015-jpg

      All wheels mounted. Not perfect, but they will hardly be seen on the car.


      Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_00021-6-jpg
      To enable to correct the mesh of the wheels the bearing ot the camshaft has a bore that is slightly off centre. So by turning you adjust the mesh.


      So far for today. More will follow soon.
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  1. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Klaus
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    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    The cylinders are made of aluminum rods. Head and cylynder lining have central bores, with a thread in the heads. Bolts hold them together.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0031-jpg

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0033-jpg

    After turning, the cylinders were milled in order to group them in pairs.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0004-jpg

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0006-jpg

    The heads were planed for intake and exhaust.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0008-jpg

    The central holes are for the rocker arms columns.

    Sorry, I don't know why some pics have been turned. They appear correct in my computer.


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0003-jpg

    There are four water plugs in each head. They are made of brass rod that was milled with a 1 mm cutter. I couldn't do without the lathe and the mill. It's an EMCO Compact 5 with the mill attached. I bought it more than thirty years ago, and it has proved very reliable.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0062-jpg

    Thanks for looking,

    Klaus


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    QUOTE QUOTE #2

  2. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    I glued styrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp sheet to the planed surfaces of the cylinder heads.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0002-2-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0001-2-jpg

    There are the spring support brackets already mounted.

    The next step was to fabricate the inlet manyfolds. Instead of making them from scratch, i took the kit ones, sawed them up lengthwise and glued them back together with styrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp sheet in between. So they looked a lot more like the real thing. Then I drilled holes through to insert the "valves" and valve guides.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0003-2-jpg

    Here are the "valves" and guides.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0008-2-jpg

    I glued the guides into the holes, inserted the valves from underneath, and a short piece of spring, too.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0010-2-jpg

    The hole was then blocked using a bit of styrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp rod.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0011-2-jpg

    And the "valves" were functional.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0012-2-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0014-2-jpg

    The exhaust valves. These are completely scratch-built. The domes were turned on the lathe and blocks affixed. Filing and sanding Yet another Fiat 130 hp ... a lot.
    The valves here are 1 mm bolts protruding from brass tubes. The odd-shaped things at the top are t-shaped brass bars. The lower part ot the T will later
    engange in the valve return leaf spring.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0006-2-jpg
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0005-2-jpg

    The toothpick indicates the flange for the water pipes. In the next picture you can see one of the studs on the flange.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0024-2-jpg

    So far. Thanks for looking. Please excuse the somewhat poor quality of the pictures. I have a much better camera now, but these pics were taken years ago.

    Klaus


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    Last edited by koehlerkment; 02-13-17 at 11:32 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #3

  3. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Klaus, your EMCO machine is good looking. I have the Unimat3 which is about the same size, but more crude. However, I can live with it...
    The sole experience I had with a Pocher kit was with mixed feelings. It was not mine, I just had to help for the construction, without improvements.
    It seems that you are not only improving the visual aspect, but adding some elements of your own.
    QUOTE QUOTE #4

  4. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Klaus
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    Thank you, Roger. In the course of the build report you will find that 99 per cent is made from scratch.

    Also a big thank you for your wonderful work that is a lot more intricate than anything I do. It gives me great pleasure to follow your build report.

    Klaus


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    QUOTE QUOTE #5

  5. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Thanks Klaus! Sometimes I have the feeling that my build is too intricate!
    I will follow how you are doing your own model. Ah! To be retired has also advantages!
    QUOTE QUOTE #6

  6. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    The rocker arms. Most of the pictures are self-explaining.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img004-jpg

    I used the picture above as a template for the arms. The strange shape of the cam can be seen clearly. It turns counter-clockwise, first opens the outlet valve. Then the coil spring pushes the rod down and the inlet valve opens. Turning further, the diameter of the cam slightly increases and pushes the rocker arm into neutral. This way there can be no valve overlap, which is not the best lay-out when a good filling of the cylinder is to be achieved.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0030-jpg
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0031-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0032-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0034-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0039-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0041-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0044-jpg
    I glued styrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp strips to the edges. At the tips are 1 mm studs (with a square head) to "adjust" valve clearance.

    Pocher part and mine.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0045-jpg

    Now the rocker arm "shafts" or columns.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0046-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0048-jpg

    I fixed the sides using a piece of brass tube as a jig.

    The lower rectangular part has four holes at the edges for the bolts that will hold the leaf spring in place. The assembly was soft soldered. The central hole is for the column, which I turned from brass.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0049-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0050-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0051-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0054-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0055-jpg

    The right hand studs operate the valve stems.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0059-jpg

    The final stage: the rocker arm has been sprayed. The column has been tin- plated Yet another Fiat 130 hp using a plating agent that works without electricity. You just dip in the metal (after removing any grease) and it comes out shiny silver. Being tin, it will dull in time.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0002-jpg

    Thanks for looking. Hope you like my work.

    Klaus


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    Last edited by koehlerkment; 02-16-17 at 02:51 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #7

  7. ThierryD86's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by koehlerkment View Post
    The rocker arms. Most of the pictures are self-explaining.


    Thanks for looking. Hope you like my work.

    Klaus

    Oh, yes , I do like it
    Hats off my friend
    Your methods are inspirational, Klaus
    QUOTE QUOTE #8

  8. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Interesting work, Klaus. If I'm correctly understanding the first figure, the intake valve is on the left; open on the drawing. When the cam is rotating counter-clockwise, that slight movement of the rocker arm allows the intake valve to close; it is pushed back by the leaf spring. Then, the cam forces the exhaust valve to open, and so on. Rather crude as a system.
    Where did you buy or what is the name of that "miracle" product to tin metal? I could use it for several parts which would be more efficient and realistic than paint. "My" engine has many heater and vacuum tubes which could be plated Yet another Fiat 130 hp with that method.
    It's always possible to learn an old dog a new trick!
    QUOTE QUOTE #9

  9. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Your observation on the function of the valve operation is correct. By the way, the picture shows the 1905 100hp engine. the 1907 engine features coil springs in the intake dome. The leaf spring on the outlet isn't exposed to the exhaust heat. A coil spring here would simply be a lot longer and therefore impractical.

    The tinning-agent is sold by Saemann Aetztechnik in Pirmasens, Germany. It is called "Glanz-Verzinnung". Before you apply it to brass or copper, I strongly advise to use an agent that removes oxides. It is a dangerously smelling aciduous liquid sold as "Messingglanz". I bought it years ago from Fohrmann-Werkzeuge (Germany), but regrettably they no longer sell it. I haven't tried anything else yet.


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    QUOTE QUOTE #10

  10. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Thanks for the info, Klaus! I will see if I can find/buy it in Switzerland. I surely cannot order it from Germany, the post office does not like to forward liquids...
    Edit: I was searching in Google for that product. Nothing in Switzerland, only in Germany. I found something on eBay (one liter) which could be sent to my address. Found also another address selling 0.1 liter but I did not checked if they would ship. Which quantity are you using?
    Last edited by Roger Zimmermann; 02-17-17 at 08:21 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #11

  11. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    The first version leaf springs were not satisfactory. The second version was made of four layers of .5 mm styrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp plus a layer of .3 mm bronze sheet. I don't know what ist's called in English, but it acts like a spring and makes sure that even in case of styrene Yet another Fiat 130 hp fatigue the spring will work. Before mounting I made slots at the top of the springs that engage in the lower parts of the T-shaped part of the outlet valves.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-pa050016-jpgYet another Fiat 130 hp-pa050017-jpg

    Here are two of the cams inside the engine block.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0002-2-jpg
    On top of the block the tappet guides. They are slotted at the rear, the cam follower/tappet has a tongue (is that the correct expression?) that fits in the slot. So the tappet can't revolve. This is absolutely necessary as the follower is a wheel that must always run correctly on the cam.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0005-2-jpg
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0003-jpg
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0005-jpg
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0006-jpg
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0007-jpg



    Sorry for the bad quality of the last picture. One tappet is fully up (outlet valve open) the other is in neutral.


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    Attached Images Attached Images Yet another Fiat 130 hp-img_0001-2-jpg 
    Last edited by koehlerkment; 02-20-17 at 12:58 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #12

  12. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    Three more pictures that show the different positions of the tappets.
    Outlet open.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210018-jpg

    Neutral
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210020-jpg

    Inlet open.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210019-jpg

    The push/pull rods were pretty straightforward ... or so I thought.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210006-jpg

    The circlip is necessary to enable the spring to pull down the rod, thereby opening the inlet valve.

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210007-jpg

    The spring is held in cups. I pressed in guides to prevent sideways movement of the springs.

    The fork at the top consists of four parts. I soldered the sides to the centre part using a jig, like the one I used to solder the rocker arm forks. The tube has been glued in with AC, then bored with a 1.2 mm drill and a 1.5 mm thread made with the tap. The length of the whole thing can be adjusted.
    The fork looks a bit crude, but in reality it's rather small, so it doesn't hurt the eye.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210009-jpg

    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210010-jpg


    It may sound odd, but the spring was the most difficult part. To keep up with scale, I had to use .8 mm wire. The first try with spring steel didn't work well. The spring was too tough, the strain on all parts too high. Second solution was copper wire, which was quite good at the beginning, but soon the springs suffered from fatigue and didn't open the inlet any more. Last try, which has proved successful, was brass wire.
    Yet another Fiat 130 hp-p2210011-jpg
    Finally I tin- plated Yet another Fiat 130 hp everything except the cups that I aged with brass burnishing liquid.


    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    QUOTE QUOTE #13

  13. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The youtube video shoews the valve mechanism at work. This video was taken at a later stage of the assembly. The springs are still copper, but not weak yet.

    Hope you like what you see.




    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    QUOTE QUOTE #14

  14. koehlerkment's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    The advance/retard mechanism in action. It will be operated from the quadrant on the steering wheel.

    https://youtu.be/UDbqk5CUBBw





    Yet another Fiat 130 hp
    QUOTE QUOTE #15

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