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    1. Kit: Pocher, by (Active Member) jrhaddock is offline
      Builder Last Online: Jun 2018 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  (1 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 5
      Started: 01-21-16 Build Revisions: Never  
      Supported Kit Bashed Includes Transkit Attribution
      Build in Progress

      GURNEY NUTTING RR PHANTOM II FAUX CABRIOLET
      CLOSET MODELING

      BUILD THREAD
      Even though it’s not something I’ve done before, I’ve been thinking of starting a build thread for my next model.
      The model will be of a 1933 Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II and will be based on the Pocher RR Sedanca kit. However, I have a large number of changes and scratch-built elements planned so this particular build experience may prove useful to others.
      In addition I now winter in Florida and so my modeling space there is restricted to a roughly 5’ x 5’ walk-in closet. There’s a limited array of tools there and no easy way to paint anything, so construction will be a bit of a challenge. But then I’m not alone in having limited modeling space and believe you don’t need a full blown workshop to do some serious modeling. So why not give it a try?

      GURNEY NUTTING
      Gurney Nutting was one of the pre-eminent pre-WW II coachbuilders using the Rolls-Royce chassis. Their sleek designs on the shortened Continental chassis were particularly attractive and were the basis for the Pocher Rolls-Royce Sedanca model.

      1933 FAUX-CABRIOLET
      In my opinion, one of their most attractive creations was this faux-cabriolet built in 1933 for Sir Hugo Cunliffe-Owen, chairman of the British-American Tobacco Company:
      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-1933-rrphantomii-gn-fauxcab-1-jpg
      It’s a particularly sleek and handsome design which conveys both flair and respectability, something that’s not easy to achieve. It was built on the shorter Continental Phantom II chassis and, despite the appearance, the roof does not fold back, (hence faux-cabriolet) but, instead, has a sunroof.

      PLATFORM
      The Pocher RR kits all use the 144” wheelbase Continental chassis so the Sedanca kit would make a good starting point. A few years ago, I had purchased two partially completed (and abandoned) model Sedanacas so they can be the platform for this model.
      I like my models to be replicas; that is historically accurate versions of the original vehicle. That means adding lots of detail and correcting the inaccuracies in the Pocher kits. So this will not be an ordinary Pocher build, quite the opposite.

      CHALLENGES & SOLUTIONS
      Below is the picture on the Pocher RR Sedanca box and, as you can see, the most glaring external differences are the fenders, trunk (or boot) and the spare wheels.
      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-pocher-jpg
      Fortunately, Model Motor Cars sells a set of resin Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet fenders for the Amabassador kit. Those fenders are very similar to those on the Gurney Nutting faux cabriolet and I just happen to have a set. So, with some modification, they should be suitable.
      I’ve also been experimenting with 3D printing of parts so I’m confident 3D printing can take care of the spare wheel covers.
      The roof profile is slightly different and the belt line higher, but I figure I can modify the Pocher body to match. And those of you with eagle eyes will note that there are five louvers on the Pocher body, but seven on the Gurney Nutting body. However, with two kit bodies at hand and some cutting and splicing I should be able to get that fixed.

      DIFFERENCES vs. THE POCHER KIT
      Pocher mixed up different generations of Phantom IIs in their kits. So, one of the steps will be to make sure the build will include the correct features for the date on which the prototype was built. The chassis number is 170MY and it came ‘off-test’ (i.e. the chassis was complete) on May 5th, 1933.

      The Pocher engine will require significant modifications as well as the addition of many super-details (such as control linkages) missing from the kit. However many of the individual changes are in a series of build notes that are available on my website at www.jrhscalecars.com under the Phantom II tab. So, at least, I’m very familiar with what has to be done.
      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-1933-rrphantomii-gn-fauxcab-2-jpg
      One of the most noticeable changes is the third generation semi-expanding carburetor with its big air cleaner. Fortunately I had built one for my Figoni & Falaschi RR model. I can build another and I now have the option of using 3D printing.
      In the photo you may also have noticed the two vertical cylinders on the left hand side of the firewall next to the steering column. Those are remote hydraulic adjusters for the Andre Hartford friction shock absorbers. The adjustment was by means of a knob on the dashboard. The Hartfords were installed in addition to the regular shock absorbers and were designed to reduce sway when driving at high speed. Indeed, in the original RR factory build notes for this car it states that it will be used “in the UK. Mainly fast touring”. The Figoni & Falaschi RR was also fitted with Hartford shocks (although not with remote adjustment) and I had installed those on the model. They really shouldn’t be too much of a challenge. Of course, it’s not entirely clear how the hydraulic cylinders are mounted, but I’ll figure something out as I go along.
      It’s not obvious, but the engine has a torque reaction damper mounted between the front of the engine and the radiator. This was left out of the Pocher kit, primarily because the Pocher radiator is too thick. So the radiator will get slimmed down and the damper assembly and its related cross-member added.
      Also, the front shock absorber design used in the Pocher kit was not introduced by RR until July 1933, so this model should have the earlier, vertical-type front shock absorbers that were mounted on the inside of the chassis rails. 3D printing will help with them too.
      This generation of the Phantom II came equipped with the smaller 20 gal (Imp) fuel tank, not the 28 gal tank provided in the Pocher kits. However I had scratch built Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet the smaller tank for my Figoni & Falaschi RR model so I could do so again, although I’ll probably try a 3D printed version first.

      Bottom line is that there are a whole bunch of corrections to make and details to add, but no obvious ‘stoppers’. It will be just a matter of time, patience and application.

      Still, let me know what you think.


      Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
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  1. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Yes, Peter, no problem.
    Please send me an email if you can and I'll reply directly.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #47

  2. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    I mentioned earlier in the thread that the front seat backs had arrived. Here are some pictures of the assembled seats:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9411comp-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9409comp-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9410comp-jpg
    The seat base, seat cushion and seat back were all 3D printed in SLS nylon.
    Of necessity, the seats tilt forward to allow the rear seat passengers entry and exit. The tilting arrangement mirrors Gurney Nutting's design.
    Here's close-up of the tilt bracket assembly:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9417-jpg
    For strength, the bracket is cut from tin sheet. The top end of the bracket fits into a slot in the bottom of the seat back.

    Each seat backs also has a cut out that will, eventually, incorporate a fold down table. Again this is consistent with the prototype.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9414comp-jpg
    Of course, the seats were designed to adjust backwards and forwards. My plan is to use interlocking 3/32" 'C' channels to provide the rails for that capability.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #48

  3. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    As preparation for the fitting of the torque reaction damper, a standard feature on RR Phantoms after the end of Jan 1932, it's necessary to slim down the Pocher radiator to match that of prototypes. The steps I take to do that are described in Vol 2 of my RR Super Detail Notes, pp 17 & 18 which are available on my website here: http://www.jrhscalecars.com/RRSuperDetailing.html.
    Here area couple of pictures of the radiator for this build:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0207cmp-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_0208comp-jpg
    The overflow pipes are smaller in diameter than the Pocher pipes, but consistent in diameter and shape with RR drawings.
    For this radiator, I chose to 3D print the flanges that carry the bonnet rub strips rather than fabricate them from brass strips as described in the notes. Either way works. For the canvas rub strips I use some very narrow fiberglass tape. It's a very realistic color and is simply woven through the flanges.
    One other difference is that the donor radiator had a large hole where the starting handle protrudes through the back of the radiator. This, I think, was because the end of the crankshaft was interfering with the radiator. In any event, the easiest solution was to square up the hole, fill it with styrene Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet sheet and then re-drill the hole for the starting handle. It looks realistic, but it will be covered by the torque reaction damper anyway.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    Last edited by jrhaddock; 06-28-16 at 08:53 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #49

  4. petert's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Please see your private massages
    QUOTE QUOTE #50

  5. Jo NZ's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    If anyone is after the Phantom II book by Raymond Gentile, there's one for sale on trademe - NZ's version of eBay. See http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1256759347
    QUOTE QUOTE #51

  6. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    Jeez, I just realized how long it has been since I last posted my progress here. Sorry, everyone.
    But progress has continued even if lots of other life activities have gotten in the way!
    Most notably, the chassis, with all its detailing, is now virtually complete.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9685-jpg
    There's also a completed engine, with a scratch built Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet (and historically correct) semi-expanding carburetor, waiting to be installed.
    All of the body panels have been made and test fits completed and some of the body parts have been finish painted, but not all. My original plan had been to finish the model over the summer, but I ran out of time before I left for a warmer climate. Unfortunately I have no painting facilities down south so completing the model will now have to wait until next year when I'm back up north. I've learned from experience that models have their own timeline. You can help them along but it's dangerous to rush things. So be it.
    I'll post more pictures and details over the next few days.

    In the meantime I'm thinking of building a 1936 or 1937 Traction Avant 11A 'Normale' using the Heller kit as the base. The bodies are virtually the same size, but the 11A had a much smaller 4-cylinder engine and a different gearbox configuration. There are many other detail changes as well. But that's another story and I'll start another post to describe what I'm doing.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #52

  7. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    The chassis for the GN Phantom II is highly detailed and, as far as possible, historically correct.
    That means the chassis incorporates the following:
    - A smaller 20 gall fuel tank (not the one in the Pocher kit)
    - The piping Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet for the chassis lubrication system, and the foot lever for the related oil tank
    - Fuel lines
    - Vertical type front shock absorbers. The horizontal type in the Pocher kit wasn't introduced until later.
    - Hydraulically adjustable Andre Hartford friction shock absorbers front and rear, as well as the associated piping Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet and tanks.
    These additional friction shock absorbers were virtually standard on all RR Continental (SWB) chassis.
    - A thinner Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet radiator, (consistent with the prototype). Proper bonnet rub strips have been added.
    The thinner Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet radiator is essential in order to add the torque reaction damper to the engine.
    - Modified hangers for the carburetor inlet pipe.
    - Modified and insulation wrapped exhaust piping Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    - Scratch built Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet leaf springs which provide a stiffer, more realistic suspension.
    - Modified steering column, steering box and steering arm
    - A rear axle and brake assembly that allows the brakes to be pulled on.
    The Pocher brake linkages will be replaced by correct brake shackles, rods and wires
    - A modified brake equalization arrangement to better mirror the prototype.
    These photos will give you some idea of the changes:

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9713-jpg
    Clearly visible is are bonnet rub strips on the narrower radiator and, just behind the radiator, the vertical-type front shock absorbers.

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9712-jpg
    The firewall is a 3D printed redesign that better mirrors the prototype.
    Behind the steering column are the two hydraulic tanks that allowed the Hartford friction shock absorbers to be remotely adjusted by the driver. Two knobs and two gauges on the dashboard (one each for the fronts, one each for the rears) allowed bladders on the backs of each shock absorber to pressurize the friction plates. Just visible, on the inside lower edge of the chassis rail is the hydraulic line feeding the front Hartfords. The line branches just in front of the radiator and the line connected to the left hand front shock absorber runs under the radiator support cross-member. Pretty neat, eh?
    Also, clearly visible are additional (and correct) hangers for the carburetor inlet pipe. A new inlet pipe was fabricated from brass rod as, with the new hangers, the inlet pipe sits higher off the ground than the Pocher version.
    The handbrake lever and frame (behind the steering column) are 3D printed versions which allow for a more realistic representation.

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9714-jpg
    The lube line, with its characteristic 'U's is clearly visible. In front of it is the hydraulic line feeding the rear Hartford shock absorbers. The lube line ran down both sides of the chassis rail, the fuel lines only the left hand side.
    The brake equalization arms (on the left hand side of the photo) are 3D printed versions. I've always struggled to fit the Pocher arms (the larger one is too short) and they are incomplete. Also, the Pocher arms have to be slid over the cross-member whereas the 3D printed versions have end caps, just like the prototype, and so can be fitted after the cross-member is installed.
    Braces have been added to the main cross-member. This was standard RR practice.

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9701-jpg
    This photo clearly shows the lube line and two fuel lines running along the left hand chassis rail. A 'U' shaped cross member has also been added just in front of the fuel tank (standard RR practice). This not only anchors the front of the fuel tank, but also acts as a bridge for the hydraulic line feeding the rear left hand side Hartford shock absorber. The line is just visible on the front edge of the U cross member.
    The exhaust pipe to the rear of the muffler has simulated asbestos rope wrapped around it. If I remember correctly, the diameter of the rope was specified to be .375". The rear exhaust pipe connection to the muffler has been extensively modified. Pocher simplified the connection and it looks, and is, unrealistic. I drilled an angled hole into the Pocher steel muffler and fabricated a new exhaust pipe from brass bar to fit. A double flange slips over the bar to simulate the flanged connection behind the muffler.
    This, somewhat out of focus picture shows the flange and insulation:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-muffler-flange-insulation-jpg

    This is a better view of the whole rear chassis assembly.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9703-jpg
    The smaller fuel tank and the Hartford shock absorber are very visible.
    The rear leaf springs were fabricated from 1/4" brass strip and held together with 3D printed spring clamps, fitted with 00-90 Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet studs, and retainer plates made form brass strip. The springs are covered with heat shrink tubing to simulate the gaiters that were used on the prototype. The whole assembly is quite stiff, but can still be bent to give the desired height of the body. The Hartford shocks can also be tightened so there is no risk that the body will sag over the springs (a common Pocher problem).

    The Gurney Nutting prototype had a very elegant fishtail tail pipe on the exhaust. Here's a picture of my 3D printed version:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9716-jpg

    That's it for now.
    A significant number of the modifications shown here are also described and dimensioned in my RR Build Notes which you can find on my website: www.jrhscalecars.com.
    Hope you find this interesting.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    Last edited by jrhaddock; 10-26-17 at 08:40 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #53

  8. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    ​interesting!
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #54

  9. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Thanks for the comment.
    I've just caught up with your Birkin Blower postings. Wow!
    Really a neat project and top notch work.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #55

  10. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Hello John!

    Very interesting!

    Your philosophy and mine are the same!(I assume) All of those details are important! How does the fuel get to the engine? how is the lubrication routed? with adjustable shocks, how does that system actually lay out? -I think that some engineer designed it, many people made a living assembling it, and with some cars, its this level of detail that demonstrates why THIS vehicle is special. -Its just as important to me to represent these things as it is to paint the model well!

    There are reasons to do a "Curb-side" model, and I can appreciate those, but if you know what can be done? shouldn't we aspire to do it?

    Thank you for posting your work!

    -Don
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #56

  11. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Hi Don,

    "shouldn't we aspire to do it?"
    Absolutely.
    I think of it as 'trying to get it right'. And one of the virtues of 1:8 scale modeling is that it's probably the smallest scale at which it is still possible to replicate almost all the detail of the prototypes. But I like to think that if, by some magic, one of the original designers saw our models he/she (although almost certainly a he) would nod in appreciation. I don't think about it much but I suppose, in a way, 'getting it right' is a form of homage or tribute to what they created and which still impresses us. So, yes, let's "aspire"!!


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #57

  12. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    I'm aspiring as fast as I can!!

    By the way its Jo, of JoNZ, whose actually making something special. (I'm kibitzing a bit) -Don
    -craftsmanship is a lifelong project of
    self-construction and self determination
    QUOTE QUOTE #58

  13. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    I should have posted the following photos before but, I suppose, "better late than never".
    Here's a photo of the partially assembled, partially painted body:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9635-jpg

    Making sure the body fits the chassis before final assembly is crucial. In particular, it's important to make sure that the steering column, steering column mounting brackets and the dashboard all fit and that the floor will fit over the handbrake and gear levers. Because of the side skirts on the floor, those levers have to be attached to the chassis before the floor can be installed. So getting the fit exactly right before finishing the chassis and floor is crucial. I'm also adding an 'H' gate for the gear lever, mounted tot he gear lever mechanism, (which was RR practice) so you'll see in the photo below that the slot for the gear lever is rather large.

    At this point, the body pieces are simply slotted or pegged together but that's enough to confirm fit and form. The fenders (originally resin Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet Ambassador fenders from Model Motor Cars) have been highly modified to reflect the shape and sweep of the prototype, including the incorporation of sidelight housings into the front fenders. Some of those changes were described earlier in the forum, but then more changes were needed to get right profile. In particular the rear fenders were reshaped to cover the rear spring mountings.
    A subtle, but important change was increasing the width of the doors by 6mm. This really helped the visual balance of the car, but it turned out to be a lot of work. Fortunately I am completely redoing the Pocher window winding mechanisms anyway so it was a matter of modifying my own modifications!! Nevertheless, work is still work!
    Another subtle change is the addition of two louvers to the array in front of the doors. Again, this is consistent with the prototype, but it is also a non-trivial change.
    The upper body is still separate from the lower body and just pegged together. Having them separate really helped with designing and fitting the headlining and fitting the rear seats. But with that work now virtually complete, the upper and lower halves can be glued together and the seam filled, sanded and painted.
    The front seats, like the rear seats, are scratch built Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet to mirror the prototype. The front seats are a typical Gurney Nutting design and hinge forward to make access to the rear seats easier. The seats also slide on rails and can be adjusted backwards and forwards just like the prototype.
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9632-jpg
    The wires you see in the photo are for the LED sidelights incorporated into the fenders. Eventually they'll be connected to a 9V battery under the rear seats and to a switch under the boot.

    Each of the front seats have folding down tables for the rear seat passengers. Here they are completed and painted:
    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9636-jpg Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-img_9637-jpg

    Visible behind the seats is the footwell for the rear seat passengers. This was a neat way of increasing legroom while still giving the car a low profile. In the photo, the floor has had its first couple of coats of paint. Of course, it will eventually be covered by a carpet. Likewise the rest of the body have their first coats of paint. The body will be gloss black which, as most of you know, is absolutely the best finish for highlighting surface imperfections!! So multiple coats and careful sanding Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet in between are necessary. And that's why I use lacquer Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet paint, typically automotive paint. Each coat is thin, which preserves detail, and dries quickly. However, I still like to let each coat dry for two days before sanding Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet and re-coating.

    Clearly visible are parts of the door hinges. Because I've never been a fan of the Pocher door hinges, (I think they are crude and the mounting method very unsatisfactory), I fabricate new hinges from 1/16" brass tube soldered to .016" brass hinge plates. Hinge pins are .025" piano wire which gives enough clearance in the brass tube for the hinges to operate freely. I mill out and slot the body and the door panels to take the hinge plates which makes sure the hinge pins are well outside the doors (just like the prototypes). This way the gap between the doors and the body can be minimized. When installing the hinges on the body (and door panels) I use a long piece of piano wire to keep the top, middle and bottom hinges in alignment with each other. Otherwise the risk of misaligning three hinges is very high.
    For now there's not much more to be done until I return up north and can complete the chassis and body painting.

    As is obvious, I'm not one for posting tot he forum on a regular basis. However, I'm more than happy to provide more detail of what I've done, and how I've done it, if anyone is interested. Just let me know and I'll post what I can here.

    Happy modeling,

    John


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    Last edited by jrhaddock; 11-03-17 at 11:10 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #59

  14. Egon's Avatar Moderator
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    Time for a update perhaps ?
    QUOTE QUOTE #60

  15. jrhaddock's Avatar Active Member
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    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    Hi Egon,

    Not quite. I won't be back working on the RR for another month or so, although I have rebuilt the wire wheels from the donor kit. They were in very poor shape.

    Meanwhile I've been working on a 1:8 scale 1936 Citroen Traction Avant 'Normale' (11A). The Traction Avant was introduced in 1934 so a 1936 model fits in well with the other 1930s models I've built. The body size is the same as the 1952 15-Six so I can use the Heller 1:8 kit as the platform. However the '36 had a 4-cyl engine, not a 6-cyl so the whole front end; engine, gearbox, suspension, radiator and torsion tube arrangement will be scratch built Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet .
    So far, the work has been research, and then making CAD drawings of the complete front end.
    The drawings are now complete. Here are three renderings:

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-lhs-rear3qabovecmp-jpg

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-rhs-front3qdetaicmpl-jpg

    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet-rhs-rear3qdetailcmp-jpg

    My plan is to 3D print most of the parts. One major exception will be the new, correct size, tires. They will be resin Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet molded.

    I suppose is should really start another thread for this model.


    Gurney Nutting RR Phantom II Faux Cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #61

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