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    1. Kit: , by (Active Member) Sieben is offline
      Builder Last Online: Nov 2017 Show Printable Version Email this Page
      Model Scale: 1/8 Rating:  (1 votes - 5.00 average) Thanks: 1
      Started: 01-21-14 Build Revisions: Never  
      Not Supported Scratch Built Build in Progress

      Hi there!

      I'd desided to give some thoughts here for fabrication of car model pars out of the 3d surfaces that can be transferred to 2d cutting patterns by means of 3d software like Rhinoceros 4 and show some minor personal experiments with "English wheel", but basically something kinda of EW that i made from some junk and small ball bearing.

      Ok, first of all I've got to tell about the plugin for "Rhinoceros" that called "Squish" that perform unroll of the double curved surfaces into 2d patterns that can be lately formed in whatever.

      Rhino itself can be found in torrents....and the plugin to be downloaded here

      The 3d element goes well also too if modeled in another 3d application, let say 3DsMax, and then exported to Rhino and squished there. Like this trunk of Peugeot 403, that is known and become famous after TV series about Lt. Columbo.

      Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-3ds-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-1-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-columbo-01-voiture-300x216-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-i114908-jpg

      The way the pluings are installed in Rhino is described for example here

      And then goes this:

      Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-squish-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-squish2-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-squish3-jpg

      Click the surface, type "squish" in the command line, choose the settings for unroll, and that's it, you've got nice 2d cutting pattern, that can be exported to dxf or dwg e.t.c.

      Than hammering, and all the other stuff to make it look the way it should be. The method just like the way real car patterns can be worked out....

      So, Imanaged to get that, out of the scraped air freshener, and a formers, to align the trunk.


      Not the pretty ones, but for those experienced ones, I suppose it can be not a big deal to make everthing look smooth....


      Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040151-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040152-jpg

      ....and also this. Porsche 911 wing, and kind off motorcycle wing. The last was the first experiment with the material, that was simply hammered on the iron former....

      Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040155-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040153-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040156-jpg


      And the smoother/stretcher with the hammer....

      Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040875-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040874-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040873-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040872-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1040876-jpg


      I understand that conventional methods are maybe simpler and easier, when working on the wooden formers, but if this information can be helpful and bring smth new...that was all about... )


      Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
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  1. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Just randomly taken car's wheel. With just simple photocamera. And no tripod mounting





    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    QUOTE QUOTE #62

  2. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Then if working on 3Ds Max you can use plugin Wrapit. It creates conventional surface form weather the point cloud or very high poly from photoscans. Ofcourse you have got to build it like any other model. It does not do all the job for your.

    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-123321-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-123-2-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-123-1-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-123-jpg

    Also. There is Autodesk Remake. Creates scans form photos very quick if in online mode on it's server. Just log in. Pure beauty.


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Last edited by Sieben; 01-09-17 at 03:23 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #63

  3. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.



    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    QUOTE QUOTE #64

  4. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    And back to the building of the model process. The primer Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. coat.




    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    QUOTE QUOTE #65

  5. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Applied colors. Mixed based on the color code taken from photo. Almost the right one)


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Attached Images Attached Images Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-3349272-jpg Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-0903998-jpg Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-9337396-jpg Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-04-17_193202-jpg Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-04-17_193134-jpg Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-9694775-jpg 
    QUOTE QUOTE #66

  6. JunkGTZ's Avatar VIP/Sponsor
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    The restoration of Police Detective Lt. Columbo is coming along nicely! I got to see the real car at the lot at Universal Studios in Burbank, CA parked with other cars from recent productions (at that time 1982) including the hero car Camaro Z-28 along with 2 wrecked Z-28's from the filming of "Fast Times At Ridgemont High."

    http://www.cartalk.com/blogs/jim-mot...-403-cabriolet
    QUOTE QUOTE #67

  7. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    JunkGTZ that's really greate to see the real thing out there) Thank you for appraisal)

    Some example of master from layers of self adhezive image paper. Better control over thikness compared to just a glued cardboard layers. Dont pay attention to that hood from thick foil and the way the master is made itself too. A bit of mis-positioning. Just example.




    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    QUOTE QUOTE #68

  8. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    And cheking the method on hammering on the negative form made from epoxy Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. plasticine. It works.))

    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090882-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090881-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090875-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090876-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090877-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090883-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090884-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090886-jpg


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    QUOTE QUOTE #69

  9. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Just wonder, should only that be done to form the bumper from metall? Build a press like that)



    The metal form like that or whatever call it, is formed from 4 mm iron already.
    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-123-jpg
    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090890-jpg


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Last edited by Sieben; 05-29-17 at 12:35 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #70

  10. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    If you have dies like the one in the film (male and female) , yes, you can shape almost any form you want. You need also the right material for that...However, just for one part, the costs are prohibitive.
    QUOTE QUOTE #71

  11. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Thats for full scale Roger ofcourse and can be like so. But unless you ve got in idea smth like a duplicarver, but with metal milling bits. ) And find some scrap metal) And guess that can cheat on the level the cnc's does.))) Like on good old days)

    To get high)


    Get enlightened with stamping science. And so on a bit. The magic will also be the right blank holder force applied. To form it right. And here it will be just "simple" deep drawing.

    But just wonder what else, whithout that things and with only simple tools. Just hammering, will that go? Have an idea to stretch the sheet in two vice or alike, and by pulling it with hydraulic jack upwards, hammer that sheet on it. Sound simple but not much so. Kind of stretch forming may be. Or that of incremental vids from youtube.


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Last edited by Sieben; 05-29-17 at 04:24 PM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #72

  12. MODEL A MODEL's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Sieben,

    Thank you for posting the very interesting video! I think you might be interested in making "Hammer Forms". The epoxy Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. plasticine could be replaced with "Liquid Steel", or "Liquid Aluminum", both are Devcon products, and hold up well to some hammering. But your design has to be one that lends itself to this kind of technique.(These are epoxies with actual steel or aluminum powder infused into the mix.) An advantage to liquids over plasticine, is the ability to pour them over your pattern. -You'll create a pattern with its "A" surface, and then wall up at your parting line, wax it, and pour. Once cured, separate the epoxy Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. tool from your pattern, and with thin sheets of wax, or even paper tape, (your trying to mimic the thickness of your sheet stock), cover the inside surface, it must be as nice a surface as possible, but without varying in thickness. -Pour a second time, and you now have conforming dies!

    The down sides are plenty! Cost and availability, and you can't skimp on materials! Your dies will have to withstand a lot of pressure! In your video they mention 400 tons!

    A simple hammer form can be made as you have, and for one-offs its not too difficult to justify? Try using wood dowels to soften the hammer blows, and find some way to secure the sheet stock from sliding. You must anneal your metal regularly, to prevent tearing.

    And yet another way to accomplish this technique but on a modelers scale, is to do as the jewelers are doing. The use of automotive hydraulic jacks in small but well made frames to press small pieces. The materials needed are a hydraulic jack, 20 to 30 or even 50 tons are available. A suitable frame can be bought or welded up or even assembled, but they MUST be very well made! Remember that under pressure if your pattern breaks it could shoot out at you!
    Patterns also have to withstand the pressure of being pressed, but on a small scale in a contained system, acrylic Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. sheet or block can be used, also sand Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. cast aluminum or brass hold up very well, and if you can find it, the low temperature melting metals are a standard for this kind of work! They have the disadvantage of being toxic and exspensive, but are easily remelted and used over and over. With this you'll need some sheets of urethane Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. rubber. Pretty firm stuff, 80 or 90 shore hardness, which seems pretty stiff, but under pressure they will conform to your pattern, and then return to they're original shape.

    This technique is called the Whelon process or "Bladder Press" or rubber pad pressing. Its simple to do but the size of parts to be made are limited by the size of your press.

    I've played with this technique and I'll see if I can find one of my tests to post.

    Its interesting to see all the different ways that each of us have chosen to solve the problem, of how to make a model! Your posts are perhaps the most technologically advanced, I watch regularly and thank you for sharing! -Don
    QUOTE QUOTE #73

  13. Roger Zimmermann's Avatar Yearly Subscriber
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Thanks for the video about Fisher body, very interesting! In that film, you see how complicated it is to do dies.
    I did myself some dies for easy parts, like wheel covers and brake shields. For the body, I did a shape with wood and I "massaged" the brass or copper on that positive form.
    I'm showing some examples of my dies:



    This is for the bumper ends. The hammer did the remaining job.



    Shaping the body on the wood buck.







    This is for the brake shields. As you see, it involves some preparation work. Nothing is easy!
    QUOTE QUOTE #74

  14. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Roger, really get high from you work with a wooden model itself only, whithout the brass even on it too)) That's a real craftsmanship state of art.
    As you can see try to run away from wood carving myself with paper layers instead)

    Don, will be good to see the stamping of not the jewelry things out there, so will be looking to see tests with it no doubt.

    Thank you for the info with Liquid steel. And the
    appraisal of the work.

    Don, you know, Every body tells me to make with rubber forming)

    I mean, generaly, without this bumper to be made with heavy metal rigs case, more prone to even hydrophorming rig for body panels and so, like here..




    -






    ..so that even have some drawings and junk metal like a peace of rail to weld from and so on with a pump to build one. And also selecting alternative things that fella can be made from. The pump itself like that is pulling 700 bars.


    Rig pic ideas. The main one of the "beauty" is the rubber membrane not to spill the oil when clamped. Will that be enough to hold it just with clamping pressure.
    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-05-29_151214-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-05-29_120909-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-05-29_120918-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-05-29_151404-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-05-29_151346-jpg

    And a pump like that. Nothing special.
    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-cp-700-font-manual-font-font-hydraulic-font-font-pump-jpg

    I don't know, but frankly speaking don't want the pure rubber forming and just due to many reasons. IF can cope and solve with right blank holder cushion, with all that gas/springs set ups and so, guess even better to move in that conventional stamping way thought. Well, just my vision to it.


    Rubber video.

    -



    Talking about the layer between the dies to make the sheet thickness i guess to spray a primer Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns. /paint or and that can give the desired thickness and you can simply wipe that out when done.


    And back to bumper. Ok decided. Such a "table fella" should work for it. Only a top part is shown.
    To justify the "hammering only" was a guess that it will be not the thing, so why there a question
    emerges. Was not a qustion for the sake of question, and ... you've got the point)

    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-2017-05-30_140808-jpg

    Just really want to see all the suggestions. And not also that sort of things kind of, "Oh ok, but I know already,....."

    Everybody please fell free to post in the topic. I've run out it way far beyond the initial title though


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Last edited by Sieben; 05-31-17 at 02:52 AM.
    QUOTE QUOTE #75

  15. Sieben's Avatar Active Member
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    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    Hope have not scared you with all that stuff with hydraulic press from junk, but intentions are really - the real ones to make a one)
    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-wp_20170517_19_39_35_pro-jpgUsing 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-p1090887-jpg

    And reworked building blueprint for the stretcher. Suited for the sheet with 17x15 cm.
    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.-std-jpg


    Using 3d software for fabrication of the 2d cutting patterns.
    QUOTE QUOTE #76

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