Pocher Aventador instructions update thread

[SVtrackhead]

I'm compiling a list of instruction manual updates and problem areas so I can email a complete list to my customers [edit: and of course it will be a handy reference here]. Please chime in with things you feel need clarification, or updates you have noticed in the online manual vs. the paper one supplied in the kit. Over the next few days I will be going over the paper manual side-by-side with the PDF and adding to this list.

One item I've had to explain several times is step 20 on page 21 of the paper manual (page 24 of the pdf version): a symbol has been added in the PDF version to clarify the fact that only one part# K011-14 is needed, but is mounted differently depending on your build being left or right hand drive.

[superfly]

this might sound dumb.....the symbol showing the water and a temperature gauge....i think is says 40..??
Is that 40C. or 40F? I think its for the metal transfers.

Also I've seen another build where the decal for fuel has been placed on top of the gas flap. when it should be the underside.

In general...i would prefer that they use the diagram of the decals and show their exact orientation and placement.

[3.Star]

Hi superfly,

it's 40°degrees celsius, lukewarm.25627

[superfly]

Thank you 3*

[SVtrackhead]

Another WIP mentioned an M2.6 tap being necessary to thread the deeper bolt holes in the metal parts.

[Flyboy47]

From what I can gather, none of the holes in the metal parts are tapped.
This needs to be explained that tapping is required for the metal bolts, even though they have screw type heads, going into metal holes.

[Ton]

I think they use self tapping screws for the metal parts.

[Flyboy47]

I have both "bolts" and self tappers in my kit.
So far the self tappers are all for the plastic parts and make their own thread in the plastic.
The "bolts" (the ones with fine threads and flat ends) are all for the metal parts. (according to the instructions in my kit)
The fact that they have Philips screwdriver heads on them seems irrelevant.
The "bolts" need a thread to follow...which is not there.
Initially I could not understand why the "bolts" would not screw in properly, until someone else mentioned that the holes in the metal were not tapped.
cheers
Pete

[SVtrackhead]

I've heard the screws/bolts may self-tap adequately in the shallower holes if you're careful, but the deeper holes absolutely need tapping. I may experiment with gently reaming the holes with a drill to get rid of the interior paint, but a tap is certainly the right way to do it.

[SVtrackhead]

For people like me that don't know much about taps, some great info here (http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Metric-Taps/1310.html), as well as being a good source for the M2.6 and more.

[Flyboy47]

I've now tapped the holes in the front sub-frame and all seems to be going well.
Had to dismantle the whole unit and start again.
The tapping is quite easy really.
Just make sure you have the tap vertical to the hole, then screw a little, back out a little to remove the chips, repeat as often as necessary. Blow thru the hole to make sure you get all the chips out.
Some of the holes are blind, so be careful or you can cut through.
Some of the ones previously I just could not tighten.
Now all the pieces are locked together where they should be..
I'll need to go back and repeat with the rear sub-frame and I'll tap the rest of the chassis before I start on those sections.
All good
cheers
Pete

[Ton]

And the use of "thread tapping oil" is useful because it prevents breaking of the tap.

[superfly]

Flyboy47...Can you list the correct tap size and for what screws?...Is it just the one size tap?...This is a great solution and will make the build go smoothly.

I think the instruction manual should also be amended to reflect this... appropriate tap size mapped on the parts.

Question regarding the screws...Are they brittle? Do they break? I was wondering if I should replace them with more hardened ones? Are you guys putting Loctite on them?

[SVtrackhead]

And the use of "thread tapping oil" is useful because it prevents breaking of the tap.Normally yes, but from what I've heard the holes are tapped before painting, and it is only the paint in the threads that needs to be cleared away. (I really need to start one soon so I can report first-hand information).



Question regarding the screws...Are they brittle? Do they break? I was wondering if I should replace them with more hardened ones? Are you guys putting Loctite on them?JIS screwheads in combination with untapped holes in the metal may be the biggest reasons for screw problems. I will soon be stocking the necessary taps and JIS screwdrivers.

[Flyboy47]

I've tried looking with mag glass and bright light but can find no indication of tapping.
When using the taps I am getting metal shavings from the holes, but these are ones that I already attempted to just screw straight in.

You will notice that the holes are not "clogged" with paint, so not sure how they did the painting.

I have just used the size tap the same as the screw dimension on page 1.
ie 1.8 tap for the 1.8 screw.
I don't know of a 2.6 tap, and as someone mentioned that may be an error.
I used a 2.5 tap for the "2.6" screws and it worked fine.

I haven't had a screw break yet, but ..........

I read somewhere yesterday you can use wd40 for tapping and since it's only small manual tapping and not power tapping I don't think there would be a problem.
The smaller ones need care to line up straight and take "small steps ellie" (Contact - movie), and as mentioned before, screw a small distance, back out, clear hole, repeat as necessary.

Be careful with the closed holes (front suspension arm mounts with all the "D" screws) as if you tap too far you will break thru the outer surface. I don't think that will be very important as that area would not be seen, but.......

I have done all my holes dry so far as I don't want smelly oil all over the model, but if you do the taps before assembly and then wash, all should be good.


25639
The kit I have is not branded Rolson but Duratech...I am sure there are many different ones ...all made in the same factory in China.
Make sure you get metric. My kit has 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5 I still need to find a 3.0
cheers all
Pete

[SVtrackhead]

Thanks for the info Pete.

[SVtrackhead]

I am hoping to finally start my first Aventador kit today. Can anyone tell me the size of a JIS Phillips screwdriver that will fit most if not all of the screws. I'm thinking #0, but will report back what I find.

I will also be offering an inexpensive bundle of a M2.6-.45 tap and JIS screwdriver for anyone building this kit, likely $15. plus shipping (discounted further if you purchased the kit from me). The tap is intended to be used in a pin-vise, which I'm assuming most of you will have. An actual tap handle would add considerably to the bundle and packing/shipping cost, so I'm avoiding that option.

[superfly]

Brady...Can I get your tap and screw bundle?

[hefrancis1]

The best screwdriver for most of the screws in the kit is Wiha screwdriver 261/ PH1 x 60

[SVtrackhead]

The best screwdriver for most of the screws in the kit is Wiha screwdriver 261/ PH1 x 60
Hi Henry,

I love Wiha tools, but I'm told a JIS Phillips is a better fit and Wiha does not make JIS tools. Good to know #1 is the size, though.

Brady...Can I get your tap and screw bundle?Of course, I'll post them in the Newsletter when they're in stock.

[SVtrackhead]

There is a wonderfully illustrated Pocher Aventador "Errors and Omissions" thread here (http://www.partworkmodels.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=4749) in the UK.

Thanks to CitroenTA for the initial link. 1thumbup1

[raphter]

Would you advise what tap size you used for Screw "A"?

[SVtrackhead]

Would you advise what tap size you used for Screw "A"? [EDIT!] 3mm x .5 is the "proper" size, but I've been advised that the 2.6mm-.45 tap that is used for so many of the other 2.6mm screws also works well for the "A" screws.

[raphter]

Thanks!

[SVtrackhead]

Re: mounting the doors: the body end of the hinge must be turned 180 degrees (pre-loading the spring, hold tight!) before mounting to the body, and these holes in the body should be tapped (2.6mm - .45).

Magnetic JIS #0 screwdrivers are arriving today (if UPS doesn't get buried in snow), and 2.6-.45 taps in a week. I'll post up here when they're available, will offer as a package.

[ironman]

Great Brady... It will be available on your site too... For the snow thatès mean that we will have it tomorrow...

[clobbo]

I have a set of Tamiya screwdrivers I generally use for my RC kits, they're JIS standard and should work for this kit too.

Brady, thanks for linking that UK site with the errors and omissions. For a noob modeller in me I have followed the kit instructions blindly.

[SVtrackhead]

Magnetic JIS #0 screwdrivers are arriving today (if UPS doesn't get buried in snow), and 2.6-.45 taps in a week. I'll post up here when they're available, will offer as a package.The screwdrivers arrived, and are going back to their maker. I based the size I ordered on a Wiha DIN Phillips #0 which fit all screws well especially the large "A" size, and the JIS was noticably smaller, especially the tip. The quality of the handle was poor as well, the swivel head was barely functional, especially disappointing because this was their only style with a magnetic head. I'll be ordering a few more individually until I find one I'm happy with, will update at that time.

At this point I recommend a Wiha #1 Phillips screwdriver, especially since a close look at the "A" screw reveals it is actually a DIN Phillips head.

[superfly]

Brady....will you be providing everything...one will need for this kit...in your tool set?..To be honest...I don't have anything yet...and I'm a bit lost with all the different types.

[SVtrackhead]

Brady....will you be providing everything...one will need for this kit...in your tool set?..To be honest...I don't have anything yet...and I'm a bit lost with all the different types.I'll enclose a free 2.6mm tap in the tool set for anyone who has bought a kit. The rest of the tools in the set should work well already, I may decide against even offering a JIS screwdriver. The tap at least will be available separately for anyone who has ordered a kit.

[SVtrackhead]

I'm repeating this updated post to be sure everyone sees it:
Would you advise what tap size you used for Screw "A"?
[EDIT!] 3mm x .5 is the "proper" size, but I've been advised that the 2.6mm-.45 tap that is used for so many of the other 2.6mm screws also works well for the "A" screws.

[SVtrackhead]

The best screwdriver for most of the screws in the kit is Wiha screwdriver 261/ PH1 x 60I'm an idiot, a Wiha size #1 Phillips driver is the one that fits, I've been using #1 the whole time thinking it was a #0. This means the magnetized JIS screwdrivers I received were sized right, but I'm still not happy with the quality.
The screwdrivers arrived, and are going back to their maker. I based the size I ordered on a Wiha DIN Phillips #0 which fit all screws well especially the large "A" size, and the JIS was noticably smaller, especially the tip. The quality of the handle was poor as well, the swivel head was barely functional, especially disappointing because this was their only style with a magnetic head. I'll be ordering a few more individually until I find one I'm happy with, will update at that time.

At this point I recommend a Wiha #0 Phillips screwdriver, especially since a close look at the "A" screw reveals it is actually a DIN Phillips head.

[zskylar]

This is minor but I believe step 18 shows part R-14 with no adhesive symbol. I don't think that is right.

[Flyboy47]

Another minor error I think I have found...
In Section 34 and 35 (construction of the doors).
It seems to me that several part numbers are reversed, handles (C10 and C11) for 1.

Also, in several modules the order of construction sequence really needs to be specified.
eg, hinges in front and rear deck lids need to be screwed to the body and the lid attached after (also you need 3 or 4 hands to stabilise to avoid damaging panels)...not that I did...but I came close!!!

But then, why the headlight lenses need to be attached first is a bit beyond me.
I also wonder about the sequence of modules K26 and K27. I would have thought they could be fitted much earlier as doing it as specified is very tricky.

Can't make it TOO easy though can we??

Cheers All gringrin

[3.Star]

Pocher manuals were always a kind of teaching builders imagination and frustration. I've even turned to buddhism to have Shiva on my side to reach me one of the six hands.he1hehe1he

[zskylar]

Am I the only one who noticed the door hinges are reversed on the PDF? K09-03 and K09-06.

[Jetjock]

Picked up the build again, came up with a strange part RV-04 (on the sheet whit the reflective stickers for the rear lights). Does anybody know where that one goes? Can't find it in the manual.

[Guiddy]

It goes behind the interior lights in the roof panel to give them a realistic look.
It's on page 6 of the manual

[raphter]

Visited the local Lambo dealer recently and learned some facts regarding the cars sold in this country:
The color of the brake calipers is an option.
The marker lights on the fenders are amber in the front and red in the rear. They are clear in Europe.
I've attached a rather poor photo of a car in the showroom (it was sold) which shows the amber front light. It was difficult to get a decent shot with the reflection of the showroom lights off of the terrific black paint. The brake calipers were silver on this car.

I told the salesman I would return to purchase one as soon as I won the powerball.http://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/data/500/photo_4_.JPG http://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/data/500/photo_4_.JPG http://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/data/500/photo_4_.JPG

[superfly]

Do the side markers light up?

[Jetjock]

It goes behind the interior lights in the roof panel to give them a realistic look.
It's on page 6 of the manual

Thanks Guiddy, completely overlooked that one. Guess the interior lights will be a little dimmer.

Also can't find location of WD 23 (two little red wet decals)

[Flyboy47]

The little red decals attach on the lower part of the door liners about one third along from the rear of the door.
Never have been able to work out what they are...even looking at photos of the real thing.
Possibly a recessed handle to close the door from the inside!!!???

26363
Hope putting this photo in is ok...sorry if it's not Brady
Cheers

[superfly]

I think they blow the hinges off the doors....when you flip your Aventador upside down....because you can't open sissor doors when your upside down

[roymattblack]

Looks like a red warning light for people coming up behind as you are getting in/out of the car.
They are on most cars nowadays.

Roy.

[3.Star]

Roy is right, those are anti-collision lights.

Cheers
Michael

[superfly]

What are the 2 buttons further up on the side of the door?

[CitroenTA]

What are the 2 buttons further up on the side of the door?

Looks like it's TIP SWITCH - DWA SWITCH (ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM), part # 9 in this picture: 2012 Lamborghini AVENTADOR LP700-4 COUPE EUROPE DOORS (837.05.00) (http://www.bullstuff.com/lamborghini-parts-manual/aventador-2012-aventador-lp700-4-coupe-europe/837.05.00)

[superfly]

Haha I was way off.....i thought it was some "James Bond" self -destruct switch....Thanks Citroen.....learned something new today.

[raphter]

Yes, they are lights.

[Flyboy47]

OK...now for the REAL smartypants among us......
On the diagram you supplied,
WHAT ON EARTH IS A HEXALOBULAR SOCKET??????????????????????

Sounds like something Samantha Carter would come out with to confuse O'Neill (Stargate SG1)

[superfly]

OK...now for the REAL smartypants among us......
On the diagram you supplied,
WHAT ON EARTH IS A HEXALOBULAR SOCKET??????????????????????

Sounds like something Samantha Carter would come out with to confuse O'Neill (Stargate SG1)

Looks like its just a type of screw...star-shaped....used in all types and applications...machines screws, plastic screws...etc
I supposed its one that can't easily be tampered with..I see these screws in public areas like signs and public dispensers...and electronic devices..I think there also called torx

[SVtrackhead]

Thanks to everyone who have been asking and answering questions in this thread, I haven't had much time for it lately.

[SVtrackhead]

Please post up your best methods for applying the notorious "MS" metal decals (the "Lamborghini" scripts and "LP 700-4" emblems). I get requests every week for replacements from builders that have had trouble with them.

[3.Star]

Hi Brady,
I've replaced some of them with stickers from China:chrome(metal) decals Lamborghini B(silver) 2153 | eBay (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?campid=5335897907&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fitm%2Fchrome-metal-decals-Lamborghini-B-silver-2153-%2F170926026618%3Fpt%3DModel_Kit_US%26amp%3Bhash%3 Ditem27cbfc2f7a)
Made good experiences, by using glue for ornamental stones, like goldsmiths take for applying Swarovski`s false diamonds.
Cures out clear, but will leave marks on matt surfaces, so has to be applied in small amounts. A toothpick will help.

Cheers
Michael

[petersm]

Hi Brady,

I have used clear paint (laquer, or enamel); Watchmakers glue for watch glasses; Future! and Gator's Glue
All worked pretty well when applied really thin and with some patience to let it dry a bit before applying. I try to apply with a squared off piece of wood with some double sided tape on the front with reduced stickiness (I put the tape on my pants a couple of times until it just really lightly sticks so it will let go the decal when putting it on the object)

Hope this helps,

Best regards,
Marc

[superfly]

I thought dipping it in warm water as per the instructions...allows it to have some working time?...

[Ton]

Hi Brady,

I have used clear paint (laquer, or enamel); Watchmakers glue for watch glasses; Future! and Gator's Glue
All worked pretty well when applied really thin and with some patience to let it dry a bit before applying. I try to apply with a squared off piece of wood with some double sided tape on the front with reduced stickiness (I put the tape on my pants a couple of times until it just really lightly sticks so it will let go the decal when putting it on the object)

Hope this helps,

Best regards,
Marc

So do I...best option. Another one is wood glue...it dries up transparant so it can be use for glas

[ModelingD]

Yes, I noticed that as well. But, I'm having a really hard time in mounting the doors. The hinges just don't seem to fit in well in the indents and it seems like the "B" screws aren't long enough. Have you had any issues with mounting the doors?

[AMG]

Haven't gotten around to the doors yet but you need to ensure the hinges fit all the way in. You may need to file the firewall a bit to ensure they go all the way in.

[SVtrackhead]

Please post up your best methods for applying the notorious "MS" metal decals (the "Lamborghini" scripts and "LP 700-4" emblems). I get requests every week for replacements from builders that have had trouble with them.Looks like Pocher got enough questions about this and have posted a video explaining the MS decals application http://youtu.be/rNX7b4lmwqk . Also one about the door assembly http://youtu.be/uDMM5CtTdJA .

[SVtrackhead]

I've had questions about sloppiness in the rear deck hinges. I took a pair of needle nose pliers and squashed the rivets that they pivot on a bit tighter. No sloppiness now, and the slight binding allows the panel to stay open on its own. I also put a slight bend in the inner shaft of the fake hydraulic cylinders to introduce some friction and help hold up the hatch. With the hinges "tightened" I was able to adjust the rear panel by twisting it gently until all sides fit flush.

[SVtrackhead]

A few more building tips after finishing a white Aventador Coupe:


- I use double-stick tape everywhere possible to attach small plastic parts (especially clear parts and light lenses)and all photo-etched parts, it's much cleaner and has less potential for messy errors than using glue, and is often a stronger bond. Also holds down the bases of the windshield wiper arms to eliminate the gap under the blades.

- I also use double stick tape to stick the door weights in place and prevent rattling.

- There is a lot of variability in the hinge spring tension, I used only the lightest weights in the doors, but have heard of builders adding extra lead to slow the opening speed.

- When attaching plastic parts that are located with pegs, I squish the pegs slightly out of round with needle nose pliers to fit snugly in the locating holes and eliminate the need for glue (see a trend here?). This works especially well for the long window "weatherstrip" pieces, and next time I'll use strips of double stick tape as well. Do not use CA glue on plastic pegs after squishing, it can weaken the stretched plastic and cause breakage under stress.

-For p-e parts mounted on pegs, squish the peg after mounting the part to help retain it.

-I've had good luck using plain water for the metallic decals. I test them after dipping until I can peel the edge up with a knife blade or tweezers.

- I top coat and edge almost all decals with a satin finish, water based "varnish" from a local craft store (Americana DuraClear Satin Varnish) for durability and longevity.