Tyres for the Pocher Aventador

[Ton]

What I have read about the tyres of the Lambo is that they are hard plastic. I spoke Marvin Meit of MMC Model Motorcars; high quality after maket accessories for Pocher kits, Books, Tools and CDs (http://www.modelmotorcars.com)tonight and I asked if he had plans to make a set of his wonderful tyres for this Pocher. His answer was : Yes...when they are needed

[roymattblack]

That could mean never.....

Roy.

[Ton]

That could mean never.....

Roy.

No it means that he is willing to mould them if there is enough demand gringrin BTW I am not affiliated with MMC 1gramps1

[superfly]

I am interested....but I've heard that they are rubber.....that they need to be heated to soften them up so they can be mounted on the rims.

My concern is that they appear a bit tall in side profile?...compared to the 1:1.

If he could do different rims with tires...that would be cool.

[Ton]

If you need a hairdryer to soften them than most of the time it is plain plastic. Rubber and silicon are easy to mount. Sometimes you even need an inner tyre because they are to soft :-)

[superfly]

Hi Ton...I change my answer to Yes Definitely...I think the Aventador is an excellent kit...but anything that will enhance it further...I am definitely interested in....I hope these upcoming transkits can be done at a reasonable price...this kit has a lot a "room" for inhancements..and at least 3 others are planning upgrades....Perhaps we can voice the areas we would like to see improved?Do we want one big Super Detail transkit ...that covers everything you could possible want?Do we want the option to buy just a basic transkit or individual sets for the modest builder? Can they make it available to the masses...not a limited run! I assume the Aventador is a high production run.Can they use cost effective methods/ materials to keep costs down...eg 3D printing and cast resin..CnC machining as oppose to done manually.Repetition....please don't everybody do the same things...some AM upgrade do same stuff...Sometimes we get same stuff made by different producers...or it the exact same kit part but recasted in a different material...like white metal....Finally cost...if the price is up there....can there be a payment plan...people have had to wait for months while a transkit is being produce...how about a deposit...then monthly payments? making it fair to both parties.

[Ton]

Hi Superfly,

I have seen a lot of transkits the last 10 years. And most of them started as a one off for their own model. I think Uli started his transkit 10 years after the first release of the Pocher so I think we must not expect to much in the near future. Wenn the Revell 1:12 Shelby was released many plan for transkits were spoken off on forums.....I think only one remained.

I think if there are enough potential customers than the products will come.

[Noddy]

Finally cost...if the price is up there....can there be a payment plan...people have had to wait for months while a transkit is being produce...how about a deposit...then monthly payments? making it fair to both parties.

Since the transkits usually come from one-man operations expecting them to be able to track monthly payments, deal with the people who make late payments, miss payments, and then change their minds half way through and want a refund of what they've paid in is just too much of a burden on the maker.
It's a bit like the doctor I see who is the doctor, receptionist, office manager, bookkeeper and cleaning staff all in one. I've been trying to get a statement from him for 6 months.
1censor1

[superfly]

That's why I'm hoping Hobby Design will come in and do a transkit...They have already done a DMC transkit for AutoArt's 1/18 Aventador.

Scale Auto Works had a monthly plan for the kit...which made it easier on my wallet...Its was set-up through PayPay so automatic payments come out of buyer's account...easy on both parties....he is offering a payment plan still $200/month.

[HighEnder]

Hi Ton,

I agree to you. Without the necessary demand and the willingness to pay, there won't be maker to design a transkit. From my kownledge Uli is planning to create a transkit for the Avantator and Tomasso. I saw the work of Uli's F40 and I am really exicted about his Jaguar MK motor. Therefore I put the Aventator in the cellar. Unfortunately I haven't seen any detailled work from Tomasso. I only saw his announcement, that he wants to develop a kit.
After seeing pictures from the real LAmbo 2013 with the carbon addons - I think there are so many things which can be improved.
So I can wait.

[Ton]

So I can wait.

I have one waiting for me to collect, but I will also wait to see if any after market kits will come up and what the quality is. IMO a good transkit is the result of studying the original and adding small details to the right place.

[HighEnder]

Hi Ton,
fully agree with you. Some minutes ago I put my orange Aventator in the basement. Like a good vine to develop.
Maybe I will only show the modell like these pictures.
249952499324994
However it is essential to have a real good basis like tyres, good looking rims, an excellent motor finish and realistic brake discs with nice calipers.
But - as far as I can see - it will take a while to realize that project. Let's see what the transkit market will offer.
If this idea won't come true, I will build the modell with the new 2013 outside carbon look.

24996

Again it is necessary to have nice tyres and good looking rims.

Best regards
Markus

[superfly]

I heard that Model Motorcars will be making re-placement tires...I've e-mailed them to get confirmation...
If this is true...we are one step closer to getting an Ultimate Aventador kit!

[superfly]

It is confirmed! Model Motorcars are making re-placement tires...I'll keep an eye on the website for any annoucements....Marvin did say that their supplier will start producing moulds next week.

No price or release date as of yet.

[Ton]

Great news!

[CitroenTA]

1nworthy1

[3.Star]

Trusting to the known quality of MMC, this will be really an upgrade. Kit provided tires aren't that ugly, but there is still some space for improvement. Now, that we are living in 2014 I am aware, that things are moving faster and faster for an old fart like me. Did not expect any transkit or upgrade parts for the Aventador until August this year. So I have to save a lot of coins to get all of those things.

Cheers
Michael

[Ton]

So I have to save a lot of coins to get all of those things.

Presumably 150 USD gringrin

[Guiddy]

Amalgam did a nice job on their resin tyres, see how the profile tapers in from the alloy. Anyone have one we can take a mould from!!! Come on it's only a four grand model!
25040
However, when I look at the tyres on the real car from Pebble Beach I think Pocher actually got the profile right, it just doesn't look right on a model!
2504125042

[superfly]

i think Pocher's tires need the "weighted" look..

[Guiddy]

i think Pocher's tires need the "weighted" look..

Tell us more...?

[Ton]

Compressed by the weight ???1confused1

[Guiddy]

Not what it is, how you do it!1wthe1

[Ton]

Oh ...I see 1gramps1 It only works with sillicone molds

[Tourpretendent]

Weighted look is often to be found on airplane models. They give the impression that as a result of the weight of the model, the sidewalls of the tires are pushed to the outside and the tires are flattened.

See image.

25064

[superfly]

Yes Tourpretendent...that is exactly what I meant ..For model to appear more realistic...it has to appear to be affected by gravity..the wheels should look like they are baring weight of the plane or car or motorcycle....

Some model kits miss this....so aftermarket companies provided resin replacements to correct this....(mostly for airplane models)

Also some rubber tires...attract a lot of dust which is difficult to clean and have a seam line which has to be removed...so some modellers perfer resin wheels.

Regarding the Aventador's wheels...I can't quite place whats wrong...maybe its the shiny plasticy look? maybe its the size or profile height?...or it doesn't look weighted?

On smaller models these little aspects can be overlooked...but a large scale like this...everything is amplified.


On a side note...I was wondering if getting a sugical suture needle and thread would work for putting realistic stitching on the seats? I have no clue if this is possible or where to get it from...just simply a thought.

[petersm]

Hello all,

In my opinion, for realism, ultra low shoulder/profile racing/sportscar tires would not show any compression on the sides, have a look at real carshttp://static.autojunk.nl/pictures/2013/0526/181921/image_03.jpg.
The same goes for motorcycles, I would most definitely not get on a fast bike showing any sign of compression or a weighted look (unless I wanted it to be my last ride!)
The only time this would occur is when the tires are seriously underinflated. Shoulders on these modern low profile tires are as stiff as can be to improve road contact and handling. Airplane tires are a completely different breed where the tires have a high shoulder to enable compression for the shock of landing..

The Aventador has "255/35/R19 for front wheels and tires, with massive 335/30R20 wheels and tires for the rear"
I honestly feel that using a weighted tire look would be completely wrong for this car. That being said, the appearance of the tire material, shine, structure are issues that will be of importance.

[Tourpretendent]

Hello all,

In my opinion, for realism, ultra low shoulder/profile racing/sportscar tires would not show any compression on the sides, have a look at real cars. Same goes for motorcycles, I would most definitely not get on a cycle showing any sign of compression or a weighted look (unless I wanted it to be my last ride!)
The only time this would occur is when the tires are seriously underinflated. Shoulders on these modern low profile tires are as stiff as can be to improve road contact and handling. Airplane tires are a completely different breed where the tires have a high shoulder to enable compression for the shock of landing..

The Aventador has "255/35/R19 for front wheels and tires, with massive 335/30R20 wheels and tires for the rear"
I honestly feel that using a weighted tire look would be completely wrong for this car. That being said, the appearance of the tire material, shine, structure are issues that will be of importance.

I agree with you Peter, My post was meant as an explanation of the term weighed look. Not for nothing there are no weighed look tires for model cars to my knowledge.
Although for older or vintage cars it wouldn’t be a bad idea, as these cars stood on higher side wall tires.
Ronald

[petersm]

Hello Ronald,

Thank you!
Older cars would also not have radial tires and that would be a cause to show a more weighted look. I do not know of the tire pressures for the older or vintage cars (pocher model types) but one of the main advantages of using radials is a stiffer carcass of the tire to improve road handling. However I assume that for an older or vintage race car they would also increase tire pressure.

Best Regards,
Marc

[superfly]

http://www.carstive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/lamborghini-aventador-price.jpg
http://wallfoy.com/lamborghini-aventador-wallpaper-hd-46-30598-wallpapers-HD.html

I still feel that the Aventador a road car....the tires are still have a weighted look....ever so slight be it.

[superfly]

Motorcycle, Chopper, Motorcycles | Free HD wallpapers (http://www.listofimages.com/motorcycle-chopper-motorcycles.html)

A motorcycle showing weighted tires.....not under inflated..

[petersm]

Hello Superfly,

"Bad" picture, with all the shadows it does not really show well. Off course there will always be some degree of compression but on a real high performance sportscar/racecar with ultra low profile tires it would be so minimal that it would not show on the model. Scaling is an important factor here.

The same issue goes for many of the carbon fibre decals, have a good look at the dashboard up close, then from a scale distance. You should notice that the fibre pattern becomes almost unnoticeable. IMHO having a weighted look on a 1/8 scale Aventador would resemble a flat or underinflated tire.

A Harley Davidson chopper is not a race bike by the way, I do understand your example but then have a look at a Suzuki Hayabusa or a Yamaha R1 to stay in the same league. Those type race bikes will not show the weighted look. It all boils down to personal preference but if you look at my linked picture for the Aventador you will not really notice any compression (picture of a real car on a real street)

[superfly]

Excellent point...your correct regarding scale carbon fiber decal...however....as distance changes as you approach closer to a model...things that are not precievable should start to be...its a compromise when creating anything in scale....If you don't included it...it might be preceived as omitted...if you do included it..........it might be out of scale....
Paint color is also affected be distance and atmosphere.....so we should compensate for that also...

In the end...it just has to fool the some of the people most of the time...even if its physically incorrect in the real world.

[superfly]

As far the the Aventador tires...Model Motorcars will be producing a replacement...I look forward to seeing what they come up with
Hopefully its an improvement...I welcome any suggestions or comments...this all helps me build better models.

[petersm]

Hello Superfly,

I wholeheartedly agree, I think that omitting a part or finish would not be the way to go, I tried to indicate that sometimes the subtle approach will work well. Regarding the carbon fibre, I am planning to use a 1/24 or 1/12 scale decal so the effect is still there but less noticeable. For the tires I will go for the unweighted look on the Aventador. For my models having bias ply or non-radial tires I will prefer a lightly weighted look. (e.g. the Modelmotorcars replacement tires for the classic Pocher models)

Best Regards,
Marc

[superfly]

Hi Marc,

Thank you so much...Let me know which scale carbon fiber you go with...and which tone(eg. petwer) and weave pattern... I might go the same route as you...I've got some 1/24 scale from Scale Motor Sports...I think they have 1/12 scale (for Tamiya Enzo)...And i think HiroBoy carries some too.

Pocher has that part of the engine cover already in carbon fiber...I'm wondering if I should match that scale or re-do that part???


Regards,


Renato

[petersm]

Hello Renato,

I also have carbon decals from the same suppliers. I did get my Aventador in orange, however it will be quite a while before I get the chance to start building. Initially I plan to wait and see what aftermarket parts will become available and which ones I want to get. Then as I get to it, I will try to match the correct parts and finish. I usually make digital pictures of the parts and compare them to pictures of the real thing.
My main aim is to keep everything modest and subdued so it will appear as realistic as possible. I do not claim to be a good builder so I will closely watch other builders trying to learn from them.

Best regards,
Marc

[DRZOOM68]

Hi Marc,

Thank you so much...Let me know which scale carbon fiber you go with...and which tone(eg. petwer) and weave pattern... I might go the same route as you...I've got some 1/24 scale from Scale Motor Sports...I think they have 1/12 scale (for Tamiya Enzo)...And i think HiroBoy carries some too.

Pocher has that part of the engine cover already in carbon fiber...I'm wondering if I should match that scale or re-do that part???


Regards,


Renato

Hi Renato, I use the 1/12 scale carbon fiber decal from Scale Motor Sports. It has the same scale pattern as the engine cover, so I think Pocher used the same 1/12 material.

[superfly]

DrZoom...thank you so much..I'm glad we can match the same size carbon fiber decal..I think ill place an order!

[DRZOOM68]

DrZoom...thank you so much..I'm glad we can match the same size carbon fiber decal..I think ill place an order!

You're welcome. It is the Carbon Fiber Twill Weave pattern sku#: 1012.

[Ton]

From todays MMC newsletter:


Beginning several years ago, we started to produce replacement Tires for all the Pocher marquees.
So, naturally, we have begun the process for producing replacement Tires for the new Lamborghini Aventador. They should be available for sale next month...at a comparable price to our other black Tires.

[superfly]

I'm ready to place my order!!!!

[HighEnder]

So do I.

[roymattblack]

Sounds good, but at around £100 a set, I might stick to the kit ones.....

Roy.

[superfly]

Yes sounds about right...MMC's other tires are around $25-$35US each.

Can wait to see pictures on their demo car..I'd like to see them on the rims under the full weight of the built car.

[Blacklion213]

You mean each tire is US $25.00 -35.00?

[superfly]

yes each tire

[Blacklion213]

Well, for that price those tires better kick me out of my boots!

[superfly]

Marvin of MMC e-mailed me today...he said that they are expecting a test samplelater this week......but he expects a little tweaking before production runs....MMC are suppose to do more upgrades ....but I didn't get any details............yet

[superfly]

I think its worth the investment....MMC does phenomenal work....and the Aventador's wheels and stance has to look right.Besides you see tires...unlike engine upgrades which can't be seen or noticed.

[AirB]

The problem with Model Motor Cars is that always i place an order, i pay almost 50% of the invoice amount
on taxes because i live in Belgium, and that's very pity.
Because the parts are great but the taxes make them very expensive.

[Blacklion213]

... Besides you see tires...unlike engine upgrades which can't be seen or noticed.

True. You got a point there.

[Egon]

Maby a member can send the tires as a gift for you or as exchange parts with, then no tax 1hey1

[AirB]

Maby a member can send the tires as a gift for you or as exchange parts with, then no tax 1hey1

That is maybe a solution Egon.

[tommaso_iuele]

Maby a member can send the tires as a gift for you or as exchange parts with, then no tax 1hey1


.....it works for me in Italy, specially when you are ordering from China, just tell the vendor to write down on the invoice "for sample use only"

[superfly]

Pocher has finally e-mailed me back regarding...."What material are the tires made of ?"........They are made of PVC...the same material as the seats.......I suppose its safe to say all the weather stripping...hoses and cables are made from the same PVC..(eg. V1-04. V1-03).....I would be concerned about displaying my built model near windows on hot days....it could soften these parts???Or if the model is in a display case that has lighting in it????

[CitroenTA]

The problem with Model Motor Cars is that always i place an order, i pay almost 50% of the invoice amount
on taxes because i live in Belgium, and that's very pity.
Because the parts are great but the taxes make them very expensive.
I have the same problem here in Finland with taxes and also the postage is expensive. Model Motorcars has only one postage and that is $25, from other place in USA the postage is $6 from same item.

[Ton]

Pocher has finally e-mailed me back regarding......They are made of PVC...the same material as the seats.......it could soften these parts???Or if the model is in a display case that has lighting in it????

IMO there is little chance that that softener in the PVC is harmful. I would be more concerned about the dashboard in your 1:1 car. Ever noticed that your windows getting blue-ish? You probably spent more hours in your car than next to the Aventador

[superfly]

IMO there is little chance that that softener in the PVC is harmful. I would be more concerned about the dashboard in your 1:1 car. Ever noticed that your windows getting blue-ish? You probably spent more hours in your car than next to the AventadorHi Ton...my concern is that PVC will soften under heat...eg. sunlight ....the tires might start to look flat.The sun faces one of our bedrooms ...and it gets quite hot.....A display cabinet with pot lighting would also get pretty warm.

[Ton]

Sorry...some people see PVC as a health hazard ...my mistake.1gramps1

[SVtrackhead]

The tires should be ready in approx. one month, the prototype arrived today and is beautiful! Softer material feels better and is easy to mount, it is ribbed inside to support the model, and flexes just right.gringrin

PS: we'll accept pre-orders, but no deposit or payment is due until they are ready to ship.
PPS: $140. per set of 4.

[superfly]

Put me down for a set Brady

[dexio]

put me to please i'm attracted.....

[SVtrackhead]

Will do. I know Renato, but dexio please pm me with an email address.

The post above is updated to show the price of $140/set.

[superfly]

Brady....any hints as to what other items they will be doing for the Aventador?

[Ton]

The tires should be ready in approx. one month, the prototype arrived today and is beautiful! Softer material feels better and is easy to mount, it is ribbed inside to support the model, and flexes just right.gringrin

PS: we'll accept pre-orders, but no deposit or payment is due until they are ready to ship.
PPS: $140. per set of 4.

Hi Brady

Are you referring to the MMC tyres?

[SVtrackhead]

Brady....any hints as to what other items they will be doing for the Aventador?Specifically, no. But I'm hoping for some photo-etched engine detail parts, and improved rear shock absorbers.


Hi Brady

Are you referring to the MMC tyres?Hi Ton. Yes, the tires will be produced by MMC.

[Ton]

Hi Ton. Yes, the tires will be produced by MMC.

Thanks Brady! Is a picture of the tyres possible?

[Dave J]

Hmmm.. $140 for a set of tyres... Please some photos would be great to convince me to get a set...

[SVtrackhead]

Photos as soon as Marvin authorizes me to post them.

[Ton]

Photos as soon as Marvin authorizes me to post them.

Obvious!

[superfly]

If Tommaso makes the roadster's rims...with these new tires...and some photo-etched disc brakes.....that would look very nice!I wonder if its possible to lower the car....

[SVtrackhead]

If Tommaso makes the roadster's rims...with these new tires...and some photo-etched disc brakes.....that would look very nice!I wonder if its possible to lower the car....everything is possible if you have enough time!

[tommaso_iuele]

Hi Ton,

I agree to you. Without the necessary demand and the willingness to pay, there won't be maker to design a transkit. From my kownledge Uli is planning to create a transkit for the Avantator and Tomasso. I saw the work of Uli's F40 and I am really exicted about his Jaguar MK motor. Therefore I put the Aventator in the cellar. Unfortunately I haven't seen any detailled work from Tomasso. I only saw his announcement, that he wants to develop a kit.
After seeing pictures from the real LAmbo 2013 with the carbon addons - I think there are so many things which can be improved.
So I can wait.

Hi
you can check my work on my website:
tommasoiuele.wordpress.com
Ferrarichat:
I'm back - Lamborghini gallardo LP540 - Lamborghini aventador scale 1:10 (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/collectables-literature-models/381426-im-back-lamborghini-gallardo-lp540-lamborghini-aventador-scale-1-10-a.html)
Final pocher testarossa spider 1/8 fully detailed (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/collectables-literature-models/356890-final-pocher-testarossa-spider-1-8-fully-detailed.html)

[Cobra 56]

everything is possible if you have enough time! Not to mention: Skills - patience - and1bigmoney1

[dexio]

usually to have time needs money........1wthe1

[dexio]

Tommaso i see your works ..... very dettailed, very beautifull models..... Can u tell me the name of the scale 1 10 kit's producer????

tanks and sorry for my italian english!!! :D

[superfly]

Photo of the new tires are on Model Motorcars website....nice

[SVtrackhead]

25457

[superfly]

Yay site is back up!!!

[3.Star]

And tires are already ordered by MMC.gringrinThings turned out fast, didn't expect some upgrade parts for a year, but this lambo seemed to cause an avalanche. Good for us 1/8 scale guys. Like the relaunch of the R/M Jaguar E-Type /XKE. This guy ordered a bunch of 1000 kits. Now selling on ebay Germany. Went off for 89.99 Euros first, now 99.98. Two of them will be enough for me.
Glad to have this site back working and welcome to the old and new boys here

Cheers

Michael

[SVtrackhead]

The first batch of tires will be ready in 2 weeks, and is sold out. More about 2 weeks after that.

[CitroenTA]

Those tires look very nice, but expensive. Four tires + postage + taxes = about 155 euros ($ 211) here in Finland.

[SVtrackhead]

Those tires look very nice, but expensive. Four tires + postage + taxes = about 155 euros ($ 211) here in Finland.We understand, but that is what we must charge to pay for prototypes, molds, and a fair profit. I think sanding or roughing the surface of the kit tires very lightly will improve the looks as well.

[superfly]

Brady are you still going to do a poll...to see who would be interested in CNC machined rims with separate lugs???

[SVtrackhead]

I put up a thread, but did not get any poll options, not enabled yet?

[Ton]

Hi Brady,

You can start a poll under "additional options" when you start a new thread

[SVtrackhead]

Hi Brady,

You can start a poll under "additional options" when you start a new threadI ticked that box, but the options for the poll never came up.

[Ton]

You are right Brady. I will report it

[SVtrackhead]

Tires are arriving every week now. We have shipped out approx 35 sets so far, mostly to the US and Canada, have about 10 more US sets to deliver and then will start shipping overseas.

[ironman]

Received mine two weeks ago. And very satisfied. I hope you will do the same for the roadster model when it will be out....

[superfly]

Can you post a comparison picture....of the kit and MMC's tires?

[roymattblack]

I'm not sure where these 'hard plastic' kit tyres are coming from......
I've looked at the tyres in my kit and they're perfectly ok.
Not completely soft rubber, but no way are they hard plastic.
I don't even think they will need warming to put them on the rims.................?????????

Roy.

[3.Star]

Good to have some news.Ordered a set of tires(tyres for UK) two months ago. There was no reply by Marvin, after I was asking about my order. Kind of strange, because there is almost a message coming up shortly.

Cheers
Michael

[CitroenTA]

@ Brady, can you tell me how much will the postage be when sending set of these tires to Finland.

Thank you, Jouko.

[SVtrackhead]

Jouko, sorry for the delayed reply, I haven't been getting thread notifications. Overseas shipping for the tires is not expensive, it is a small, light package. AirMail shipping to Finland (or anywhere overseas including Hong Kong, Australia, etc)) is just $15.

There will be Aventador Roadster tires soon after the kit is out in November.

[CitroenTA]

Thank You Brady. I'll make an order later.