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wagnmkr
11-14-12, 11:52 AM
O.K., the "Getr Done" attitude around here has me enthused. I have a small mountain of wagon plans ... more imagination than skill, and I am currently recovering from serious eye surgery, and blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

I have picked the largest wagon I have plans for ... A Carlsberg Dray. This puppy is about 26" long when done (without the tongue) and it is a fairly simple build (he says ... having no idea). Then there are those pesky barrels ...

I only have one pic of this wagon and can't find anymore anywhere. There used to be pics of a model, but I can't find them either so, I will wing it.

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/data/500/Carlsberg-dray1.jpg


Cheers,

Tom
View image in gallery (http://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17960)

GusSMHDV
11-14-12, 12:00 PM
YEEEHAWWW...and away we go. Right on Tom1clap1

Cheers - Gus

Don Garrett
11-14-12, 12:48 PM
Now this is going to be entertaining........just how many beer barrels is that monster hauling?
Think I'd upgrade to a 4 or 6 Clydesdale team to improve the 1/4 mile times.....man, that's quite a project.

wagnmkr
11-14-12, 12:58 PM
Hey Gus ... you just knew I was going to try something!

Don, the wagon was usually pulled by four horses ... 6 for a parade or show. Keep in mind that these horses typically weigh between 1600 and 2000 pounds each and are easily 7 to 8 feet tall at the back. For a show, the groomers have to stand on a 3 foot high bench just to get to their heads.

As far as the barrels go, it looks like there are 40 some odd. I'd be a lot happier trying to empty them than building themhe1he

Cheers,

Tom

Don Garrett
11-14-12, 01:46 PM
If you need help with the emptying chores rattle my cage, be more than happy to help ya out. he1he

Egon
11-14-12, 02:30 PM
Search google.dk (carlsbergs hestevogn)

wagnmkr
11-14-12, 03:06 PM
Thanks Egon. I found a nice pic but the emphasis was on the horses. There used to be some pics of an actual model build on another wagon forum, but they are gone now.
On the upside, if there is nothing to compare it to, then mine has to be righthe1he

Cheers,

Tom

RickyGene
11-14-12, 06:17 PM
Oh Boy, looking forward to this, hope you take us from step 1 on................I have looked @ plans for wagons, but I am just starting and will build kits for now, oh yea, I am blind in one eye, can not see out of the other, left ear is deaf, wifey says right ear is selective........he1he

wagnmkr
11-14-12, 06:46 PM
Thanks Rick.

Yup, this will be from step one all right. I got the metal for the axles today and I will start machining them tomorrow I hope. (Wifey whispered in my good ear something about the to do list).

Don, when I get to emptying those barrels, there might be a spare glass or two. Each barrel has it's own serial number on it ... and I have the list of numbers ...so ... if any go missing ....

Cheers,
Tom

Egon
11-16-12, 08:14 AM
Tom, take a tour around Carlsbergs old buildings with google maps streetveiw, they rides on a bicycles into the stables, can't see if they got that vagon in there, but I think so.

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 11:01 AM
Thanks Egon, I will give that a go.

I did more searching yesterday and found a couple of more pics. The wagon in my plans carries the number #46 and the wagon in the pics I found is #47 and virtually the same wagon so they helped.

The plans state that some of the detail WAS NOT MEASURED, so on a bunch of it I will be on my own anyway.

In reality, this will not be a 100% scale model of this wagon, just a fair representation of what the wagon was like. That will be fine with me.

Cheers,

Tom

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 11:08 AM
A couple of more pics of the wagon ...

I just realized that the wagon in the bottom pic is #46 ... same as my plans!

Cheers,

Tom

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/data/500/carlsberg2.jpghttp://www.scalemotorcars.com/gallery/data/500/carlsberg3.jpg

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 01:22 PM
And so we begin.

As with most things in life, there are many ways to achieve an end. This is my way of doing it for this type of wheel.

Wagon wheel rims are broken down into parts, called fellies. Each fellie usually has two spokes attached to it ... 12 spoke wheels have 6 fellies, 14 spoke wheels have 7 fellies.

This wagon has 12 spokes on both front and back wheels.

First I cut the segments for the rim and dry fit them to make sure that the angles are correct and that there are no gaps.

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/57.jpg

Then, I apply glue and put the rings in a metal clamp and leave overnight ...

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/58.jpg

Next day I take off the clamp.

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/59.jpg

I will run 80 grit sand paper over one side to get rid off any lumps of glue, and then I will mount this on a wood faceplate, ready to mount on the lathe

I usually make these blanks thick enough (1" to 1 1/2" thick) to get two rims out of each blank.

I use a wood face plate that mounts on a metal faceplate for the lathe. I turn a flat so that the blank can self center on the faceplate ...

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/60.jpg


I apply a liberal amount of glue, clamp the blank to the faceplate, and I will leave that overnight to fully cure. I will likely turn them tomorrow.

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/61.jpg

Cheers,

Tom

xken
11-16-12, 02:20 PM
Tom,
Looks like you are off to a great start. Is that oak that you are using?

Ken 1gramps1

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 02:43 PM
Thanks Ken,

Yes, that is kiln dried red oak. I chose that for two reasons ... the segments were already cut ( results of one of those "measure twice ... cut once moments" from a previous set) and this could end up as a glitzy, oak and brass affair. I will wait and see how many mistakes there are to hide with thick paint!

Cheers,

Tom

Egon
11-16-12, 03:59 PM
I could go there and measure the 46 and take some pic to you.

RickyGene
11-16-12, 04:54 PM
I agree, Tom looks like your off to a great start............I see already, I shall learn a great deal from this build.
Rick1gramps1

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 05:18 PM
Thanks Rick ... I will likely learn a bunch as well!

Egon, does that mean you live there? At this point, there are a couple of parts for the rear of the wagon that are unclear on the plan.

Certainly if it becomes a problem, I will let you know.

My wife and I are going on holiday to England in the spring and I was even considering a side trip to see the wagon.

Cheers,

Tom

xken
11-16-12, 05:23 PM
I could go there and measure the 46 and take some pic to you.

Egon, bring back one of the barrels as well! he1he

Ken 1gramps1

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 05:26 PM
Errrr ... Ken ..... Shouldn't that be SEVERAL of the barrelshe1hehe1hehe1he

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 05:31 PM
I just ran into the first problem with the plans. They say that the rear wheels should be 14 spoke types and yet on the actual wagon in the pic, the rear wheel only has 12 spokes ...... Hmmmmmmm. Now, most all of the other plans I have show a 12 on the front and a 14 on the back, except for a military type that has 16 spokes front and back.

Curious for sure, but I am going to stay with what I see in the pic.

Cheers

Tom

wagnmkr
11-16-12, 06:20 PM
The blank is now turned to the correct inside and outside diameter. I will leave it overnight to let any built in stress work it's way out, and I will do a final, very thin, finish cut, and then part off the two rear rims.

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/114.jpg

Cheers,

Tom

wagnmkr
11-17-12, 06:14 AM
There will be a slight pause while I redo what I have done so far.

I have been playing for several hours, trying to enhance the shadow detail in the pics of the wagons. I had the two side by side for a while and then it hit me ... although these two wagons (#46 and #47 ) look identical, they are not!

The #47 wagon does indeed have 12 spoke rear wheels and 12 spoke front wheels ... But, more than that, the #47 has two piece, Sarven style steel hubs that are held together with 8 bolts. It also has a different undercarriage.

The #46 (my model) has 14 spoke rear and 12 spoke front wheels and they have the wood hub (knave).
It looks like that part of the plan is not wrong after all.

It has been said, and this is a prime example, that many variations of exactly the same wagon can be found, depending on who made it. Gus and Ken's buckboard is another example. I also have two sets of plans for a John Deer grain wagon. One set of plans calls for the metal (Military/Sarven) type hubs and the other calls for the wooden hub. The rest of the wagon is almost identical.

So, I need to make some new segments for the rear wheels, glue them up, and turn them.

Cheers,

Tom

Egon
11-17-12, 07:55 AM
Thanks Rick ... I will likely learn a bunch as well!

Egon, does that mean you live there? At this point, there are a couple of parts for the rear of the wagon that are unclear on the plan.

Certainly if it becomes a problem, I will let you know.

My wife and I are going on holiday to England in the spring and I was even considering a side trip to see the wagon.

Cheers,

Tom

Yes. I live in Copenhagen, neer the airport and not far from Carlsberg.
I'm not sure the barrels have beer in them, and a little to big to put in the pocket, but I could give it a try. gringrin

wagnmkr
11-17-12, 09:00 AM
Egon, I am sure those would be empty barrels ... but we can always dream!!

Since I already had that blank in the lathe, I went ahead and finished the process. I cut off the first rim, faced the blank, and then cut off the second one ...

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/115.jpg

Then I hand sanded the rims a bit, and here they are ...

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/116.jpg

I will keep these on the "for later use" pile. If I decide to do a glitzy version of this wagon, I will make the metal hub version, hubs out of brass, all polished up and pretty.

Cheers,

Tom

RickyGene
11-17-12, 02:52 PM
Nice, very very nice clean workmanship..........I see already this is going to be a classy wagon build.
Rick

PS: I spent 8 years in FRG and I remember seeing on occasion a beer wagon just like the one you have posted, but it was for a German beer, I believe Lowen Brau? If I mis-spelled I am sorry, but I think I am getting the point right.gringrin

wagnmkr
11-20-12, 08:33 AM
Thanks Rick.

I have seen a north American version of this, but it is smaller and lighter.

Well, real life got in the way for a few days, but I have managed to redo the rear rims, and now have the set done and ready for the next step.

http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/images/imported/2012/11/131.jpg


I am going to do the hubs (knaves) next. and think about what wood I will use for the spokes. I have decided to try painting this wagon, so what is under the paint doesn't really matter too much.

Cheers,

Tom

Noel Smith
08-01-13, 03:44 PM
Interesting posts. The Carlsberg wagon is certainly impressive.
It has not been mentioned yet, but there are various books and plans by the late John Thompson about building scale model horsedrawn vehicles that were published here in the UK. Still available I believe. The Carlsberg wagon is listed in their plans handbook.
There is a society named The Guild of Model Wheelwrights in the UK who have a website worth a look also.
Whilst on the subject of Brewers Drays, does Anhauser Busch supply any plans for model makers of the Budweiser Show Dray?
I know a plastic kit came out some time ago by AMT that could be copied and made from wood.
Most of the drays in the UK would have been pulled by 2 heavy horses when actually in commercial use. Those that have been restored get pulled by teams of 4 normally at the country shows circuit in the UK. Rarely by a team of 6.

5thwheel
08-01-13, 07:59 PM
Tom,
You are correct. Most wagons have 14 rear and 12 front. But there are exceptions on some heavy wagons which use 12 & 12. You will usually find heavier spokes on these.