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The Swede
11-12-19, 05:41 PM
I can't believe the prices people are charging for parts online, which is compounded with shipping. Is there a website with the 3d files of 1/25 scale parts? I'm curious what all is out there?

gigglingmonkey
01-01-20, 09:26 PM
I can't believe the prices people are charging for parts online, which is compounded with shipping. Is there a website with the 3d files of 1/25 scale parts? I'm curious what all is out there?

There are a few web sites that provide libraries of objects to print, not sure if any have what you may be after but you can search them

https://www.3dnatives.com/en/top-10-websites-stl-files-161120174/ (https://www.thingiverse.com/explore/newest/3d-printing)

try this list, thingiverse is my fav

mick in glen innes 2370

Bugatti Fan
04-24-20, 04:42 AM
It is not the time taken by the machine that costs. It is the considerable programming time it takes to draw up parts, and the program software is very expensive. Just look at Autodesk Inventor, Solid Works, Pro Engineer and Solid Edge to name some of the big players in 3D Cad Design and you will start to appreciate some of the costs involved. And that does not include the considerable learning curve that the programmer needs to go through to become proficient.

Roger Zimmermann
04-25-20, 12:43 PM
In my opinion, 3D printing is only interesting to do a small serie. For one LH and one RH part for example, it's a waste of resources.

rshousha
05-16-20, 12:33 PM
Indeed, the cost of the hardware, software and the learning has large impact on costs. I rum Solidworks 2020 for parts design and I am most interested in designing parts for 3D printing. I am designing parts now for the R/C boat business for laser cutting but I am just about ready to start designing parts for vehicles.

I have done plenty of testing on different types of printers and I am just about ready to buy one for these car parts.

Total investment, between a very, very good computer, the software licenses, and the 3D printer, is around $30,000 so you can see that the cost of the parts has to cover that investment.

MODEL A MODEL
05-16-20, 12:58 PM
Are you making / printing parts to go directly onto your models? -or for patterns? later to cast in resin?

There are of course many media now, and each has it's specific properties. A system using FDM, especially the ABS type, does make resilient parts, if they are of a certain thickness. But then they need to be surfaced, if you want a smooth surface. SLA parts are usually more expensive, and do give a better surface, sometimes requiring almost no surfacing, except to prep to paint. But SLA is "Brittle" It does not have a good impact resistance.

Heat and solvents can also be a concern.

Many issues to consider when using these new materials.

Where I work, we have several large FDM machines, but take advantage of sending files out to 'Job Shops' who will print out parts in other media. Selectively our engineers picking the best material / media for the purpose intended.

I was, our Lead Hard Modeler, and making patterns, molds, and sometimes specifying materials, is what I used to do. -I do other things now.

When many multiples of a part are required? I am sometimes asked to make RTV molds, and cast parts. Using a fast setting rubber and a 'Fast Cast' resin, I can cast parts faster than they can be printed, but we make prototypes, and multiples are not the norm.

Good luck with your venture!

Many here have been thinking along similar lines, and I'm sure we will all be interested to see your progress!

rshousha
05-16-20, 01:50 PM
If someone would like to see my work with Solidworks and laser-cutting, they can see some of it on the "Design and Fabrication" page of my website at https://modellers-workshop.com/. I have been designing parts for laser-cutting, as a hobby, for about ten years.

Last October I took a semi-retirement to focus on my website. The laser-cutting parts design is doing well, the display case business is doing very well, and now I am about to get the 3D parts business going, in particular for large-scale car models, like those made by Pocher.

I also worked with a large firm, testing different substrates and ideas for quantities, and I have decided I am going to get a Formlabs II printer, as that seems to be the best compromise.

I have three or four boats still on the workbench but should be starting with the 3D printing towards the end of the summer. In the meantime, I can certainly start designing parts, if anyone is interested.

MODEL A MODEL
05-16-20, 03:22 PM
Nice website!

You have run the numbers? Purchasing versus shopping out?

I have worked at three different places, that purchased systems and machines that were outdated in a year or two?

-You have considered all these things, and I am not advocating any particular method. -I am very happy when I see new technology being embraced, and I hope for your success!

rshousha
05-16-20, 04:06 PM
The numbers are related to the prototype phase. You need to get an idea of what details work and what don't. To get to the point of saying, "this machine is the best compromise" already cost me a few thousand dollars in samples. Each sample you make is between $150 and $200, which is quite acceptable. I have no issues with companies charging for samples.

Now that I have figured out the type of machine that works, there are hundreds of little details that I want to work out. Can I make this? Can I make that? Etc. One cool thing about 3D printing is that parts can be made to move inside of other parts. This is very exciting for me, because Solidworks can make designing stuff like that very easy.

Imagine making a working crankshaft inside a block! But, imagine how many iterations you have to make of things like that before you get to get something that can be commercially viable.

So, really, the need tor the machine is to figure out what works and what doesn't. If I can get some commercially viable parts designed, I would probably outsource the production (in Canada, of course) but the cost of outsourcing design is too high.

MODEL A MODEL
05-16-20, 09:21 PM
True!

Big John
05-18-20, 03:55 PM
Hello Guys: After 6 years of drawing and modeling our friend Mike in Germany and I have developed a 1/8 scale 3D printed version of the 1960-70 Ford Indy engine. Mike has done an amazing job on his end of the detailing and his model is truly a work of art. I am presently working on setting up the parts files to be sent out to 3D print companies for a quote on production. I want a high res product so the prep work is at a minimum. I have no elusions that it will be inexpensive but I am not sure I want to make the investment in buying and learning a home based machine. Of course the 6 year time span was not a continuous work cycle since it was done on free time from work and home life. Enjoy!355083550935510355113551235513

rshousha
05-19-20, 09:11 AM
That is really nice! Your final renderings are most excellent. I have a couple of questions. What software did you use? This is very nicely done and shows a real mastery of the software. Second, and please don't take this as a criticism of any sort, do have, or do you think you will need, a copyright approval to sell these parts? I ask because I am always careful to obtain copyright for every single project I undertake.

I know this question may open a large can of worms but I think it is important to ask. I have dealt with this issue in the boat model business, and am comfortable with how I am working in that area. I am just interested in how this is handled in the car model business.

Regards,

Rick

Big John
06-16-20, 09:58 PM
Hi Rick, thanks for your comments, and you raise some good points. Maybe the guys at TDR Models can shed light about royalties for selling parts based on corporate products. I have had no luck (no response) in obtaining permission to even print a couple of decals for a one-off Bugatti project I am working on. so I have little hope of getting Ford or A.J. Foyt to sign off on a limited production run of these kits.

I am not even sure whether I will be selling these kits or a variant of it partly because of the cost of having the parts printed in the resolution that I would want in order to reduce the prep time. You'll notice in the rough printed block that there would be a considerable amount of time sanding and filling to get an acceptable finish on the low res. part. And at over a thousand hours development time it would be hard to put a reasonable per hour price on just the development let alone the printing, packing, shipping costs, and then I wouldn't send them out without an instruction booklet that would need to be developed.

I can't even hazard to guess what the cost of a 3D printing vendor would run on this project.

To answer your other question I drew my parts on AutoCAD version 2006 and at one time I could no longer join parts to the block drawing.

Thanks for your interest, it was a labor of love for the most part. J

rshousha
06-16-20, 10:37 PM
John,

The rendering you did is really wonderful. There's more to it than a "labour of love". It's also a great portfolio item, if you ever wanted to do some professional CAD work. I would be very happy to have something like that in my portfolio.

This whole copyright thing is an up-and-coming issue. Right now, it is still small potatoes because, as you mentioned, the cost of printing is very high. Also, you are copying an existing item, that was created in the first place to be produced using conventional machining so, right off the bat, you are up against a huge wall. It is much easier to chop something up than to build it up from layers.

Companies know that and I don't think anyone is going to bother you because they know the cost of production is prohibitive. Your cost may even be higher than producing some real parts!

3D printing will become interesting when you start building multi-body parts that move inside of each other or that are simply impossible to build using conventional machining. Have a look at something called the "bone chair". My uncle is an architect and taught courses in Fort Lauderdale on how to design parts that are impossible to design using any other medium.

When we start designing parts like that, and the car companies start designing parts like that, then the cost of printing the same parts will become similar. Then, the copyright issues will start to get interesting. As you say, the cost of designing a complex part is huge. So now you have this Recaro bone chair in a Maserati and you can print out a scale model of that, or the real thing, at a tenth of the cost, because you are copying the design.

In about five years, in my opinion, we will see the 3D version of Napster. I would keep my eyes open for that sort of thing. It's not the medium that is important; it's the designing.

If you want to print out a few of your engines, I would look for someone who has a Formlabs II printer.

It is on my wish list.

Cheers,

Rick

happyfreddy
06-17-20, 12:02 PM
In the newest issue of DIY Magazin MAKE :
https://maker-faire.de/das-make-magazin/

You can read about a new option of 3D Printers.

It is now possible to print in METAL way