Engine Building Contest

[Lee in Texas]

If the goal is to keep it simple and fair, why allow a $282 Allison V-12 to go up against a dirt cheap glue bomb engine from an eBay Big Deuce or Golden T? Why not have two classes; Box Stock and Run What You Brung (and hope it's enough)?

[Nortley]

Hi Lee, I'd say one quick answer is that it is just as easy to build a glue bomb Allison as any other kit engine. The object of the contest is to strive for the other end of the scale, highly challenging with either starting point.

[Lee in Texas]

Hi Lee, I'd say one quick answer is that it is just as easy to build a glue bomb Allison as any other kit engine. The object of the contest is to strive for the other end of the scale, highly challenging with either starting point.

Can you provide a link for a 1/8 scale glue bomb Allison? Maybe we're using using that term to mean different things. I don't mean strictly a sloppy build. I mean an old built-up model that one can buy inexpensively. Something that someone on a budget could buy to get into 1/8 scale.

[Andym]

What if we have two glue-bombs entered, but one of them was built with [I]really[/I] expensive glue?

[The creative explorer]

I can see where Lee is going and there is some logic in there as well.

Main objective is to get more beginners to build and post on this board ( for the record, I count myself as a beginner and can reflect that in a general view).
Most beginners, and I will not say all, start from a more basic kit. Lindberg, Monogram etc...

If the superdetailed builds keep them away from posting on this board, allowing the high-end engine kits will do the same for most. There will be a psychological barrier build.

There is no allowance to add or heavy modify parts, therefore giving the builders that do have the possibility of a high-end engine an advantage that is hard to overcome.

For example, if I would join with a Monogram Chevy engine, it would be heavily disadvantaged to someone who enters a Pocher Bugatti Engine. Where all the parts are already there.

I am not the person who will keep people out of any contest, but I do believe having those high-end engine in the contest, keep the non-posters at the same distance.

[Don Garrett]

Okay guys, I appreciate all your input more than you know...in my mind it's one of the things that keeps SMC one of the best sites out there, yeah buddy.

I'm going to step in here and rather than see this thread turn into a soap box debate about this or that I'm going to lay out some really simple guidelines that everyone can understand.

Let's call it Rick's Budget Engine Building Challenge.
Here's the deal............

No age requirement or any of that, it could be a snap kit or screw together engine from a bike kit as long as it's plastic and within the specified scales.

Scale: 1/16th and up.

The engine can be from any commercially available plastic kit.
If you want to use an R/M "visible V-8" that's cool...get my drift?
No resin , metal, TDR or other after market kits will be considered...period!

If you want to spend the coin for a Pocher it does not qualify.

No aftermarket hardware like nuts, bolts etc.

The only changes or additions to the kit engine are things like sanding and filling seams, stripping chrome and adding plug wires, plumbing , weathering , paint and so on.
Pre-drilled after market distributors are not acceptable, if it doesn't come with the kit other than some wire or thread whatever, it won't fly....still with me?

Now if Rick can get enough entries for this challenge we'll come up with some sort of prize for the winner.......Rick will determine the winner.

If there are enough entries I'd appreciate you pro builders offering a little "constructive" help to the beginners.

Any more questions?

[Rick]

Judgeing from the conversations here and taking into account some of the private mail I've rec'd, I now realize that this just ain't going to work.

My original thought was to do something that would encourage the silent majority to come out of the closet and play. Thats why I created a box stock with some detailing style of contest. Quite frankly, I was inspired by what Syd, Tim and HFC have done with kit engines. I agree that their kit engines are more expensive than most, but haveing said that, their builds are a perfect example of what can be done with some paint and detail items.

The other thing that I take into consideration is that if I and perhaps one other sponsor are putting up our own prize money, I'd prefer to do it without having to deal with politics.

For the time being, this contest is cancelled. I will happily entertain your suggestions if you think its still feasible to put on an engine building contest that will satisfy everybody's thirst for fairness. Or, one of you is welcome to put on a contest and put up the prize money.

[Rick]

Sorry Don, I didn't know that we were posting at about the same time. After reading your post, I'm willing to listen to what everyone has to say, but for the time being, the original contest remains cancelled.

If we can collectivly come up with something that works, I'm willing to revisit it.

[The creative explorer]

Why cancel? Don has put down a good grid of rules which are clear and transparant.

Next; just do it without price-money! I've never participated in a on-line contest that included pricemoney (now that I wrote it, that is untrue, I did it once), but the main goal should be building an engine.

Simplify Rick, if there is a sponsor that is willing to donate some price-money, fine. If not, there still can be a contest.
IMHO, a true builder doesn't build for prices, but for fun and joy.

I think Rick, if you go with Don, there is little to argue about and there can be a nice challenge/contest.

[Rick]

Eric, I appreciate your comments.

I'm concerned that if we limit the builds to plastic only, with no resin , metal, TDR or Pocher, we've probably already lost several of those who have already entered.

Lets let the thread run on for a few days and see what the others have to say.

[Lee in Texas]

Two classes; box stock and expert. Box-stock is plastic kit based. Expert is anything goes.

[hot ford coupe]

IMHO, I think that the different classes are a good idea. With a strict box stock contest, I can see a large number of engines coming out exactly the same way making the judging very difficult. Without superdetailing, the product is nothing but glue, paint and filler. With different classes , the experts can play and create all they want and the less experienced can follow along without competeing with the experts, try new things and learn from said experts.

Not issuing prize money I think is also a good idea. The prize can be a trophy, a new kit or simply just another medal for the winners under their names like we've done with the MOTM award. The most important things are 1) to make this fun and not work. 2) to allow the less experienced builders to learn from the experts and be able to produce the best models they can make and 3) to show many of the members that they don't need to feel intimidated by what other members can do. Help is always available. Add all of the above and I believe those will be the best incentives for more and more builders to join in the fun.

Finally, I believe that expense of a kit really shouldn't matter that much. I've built engines of all types from the simple 1/6 scale die cast models all the way up to the TDR kits. The TDR kits really aren't that much more highly detailed than many of the Revell offerings. The parts fit much better and TDR offers subjects that the big guys just don't make. Pocher engines are the ones that are the most highly detailed out of the box. It's what you do with the kits that make them stand out. When I judge a contest, that's what I'm really looking for, i.e. what have you done to make your entry better than the next guy's, not who built the better kit. Hope this helps you Rick.

[Andym]

Come on guys!!! A member steps up with a new idea and the willingness to support it with his own time and effort and others toss roadblocks in his way and point out what's wrong with the idea. That's not how we treat each other. What makes this site so great is that it's never been about individual moderls. It's always been about all of us supporting each other and building the hobby.

Rick... Do the contest. I'll help in any way you need. In addition I will donate a brand new Pocher Bugatti engine kit OR $100 in cash prizes do be distributed as you see fit. Who else is in?

Andy.

[Ton]

I have a Pocher Alfa engine which I want to build as a stand alone showing the insides. Is this a modification or is this allowed?

Ton

[The creative explorer]

Ton, I think it wouldn't matter. The insides are already there, are you planning to cut the engine in halve or just leave some parts off?

Hoe is het trouwens, alweer een tijdje geleden dat we elkaar gesproken hebben.